This is… not what the bible says. The bible doesn’t suggest that the bible is the word of man and subject to interpretation or waffling. It says that women are lesser than men and should be subject to them and it says it very very clearly.
The bible is most definitely subject to interpretation based on the reason 95% of it is illegible without interpretation.
As far as I know, taking that thing literally is a very Protestant/Evangelical way of looking at it.
Like, I distinctly remember in catholic education at school (since that was at the time my “official” religion) the teacher mentioning this. As an example they mentioned Jesus allegedly walking on water. Was it a miracle actually performed? Maybe. More likely it’s just a story made up to convey a message about Jesus since humans cannot physically walk on water and the act of walking on water alone is meaningless without interpretation.
You’re missing my point entirely and focusing on one sentence. What I’m saying is that these letters were alleged to be intended for Timothy from Paul and when taken in context, provide a good few recommendations on how to conduct a ministry.
This specific passage is not a directive to all churches at all times or even to all women in all places. This passage is specific to the area of Ephesus where culturally, people fuck a lot. It’s what they do and they are proud about it. Timothy was sent there to help a church which had struggled with the cultural sexuality and Paul says more or less “Those people are all horny, let’s not put women in front of them and risk tempting them sexually.” It was not to say “all women should hide away and shut up.” Like it might seem outside of the passages context.
If this is so why is it such an article of faith for most of the next 2000 years that women not be allowed to serve as religious leaders. Your reading is just ahistorical. Ignores all other verses that clearly delineate the subservience of women and reasoning for same.
How other people chose to use the scripture is not within my control. I just wanted to point out the context. I also pointed out in my OP that I am a former member of the church.
Divine inspiration is not God taking over the body of man to write some words down. Despite what atheist on the internet want you to believe, religious scholars are still scholars and do have quite a high bar for intelligent discussion.
That’s not at all what that person said. Also I may be wrong but I think that person is making a joke.
I didn’t say the book of Timothy was not Divine Inspiration. I said Divine Inspiration is not God taking over the body of a man to write his thoughts down for us. Instead, Divine Inspiration is more akin to teaching that have God’s stamp of approval.
If you want an interesting topic to search around though, look into canonization of scripture. Churches all around the world have different books that are regarded as canon and divinely inspired. The Bible is not as straightforward as any church would have you believe.
It’s funny, it is in fact up for debate which texts are divinely inspired as all the major churches have different canonizations around the world. Lots of crossover obviously, but plenty of questions about what should and shouldn’t be in the Bible.
It’s pretty clear that none of the individual sects consider which texts to follow up for debate and they used to murder you for having a different opinion. It is pretty clear that any new found mental flexibility is both heretical and ahistorical
You should read up on the concept of the Canon. They are part of the New Testament, which is part of the Bible, which is Scripture. This is objective fact. There is no slinking away from that even if the words may disturb you.
This is… not what the bible says. The bible doesn’t suggest that the bible is the word of man and subject to interpretation or waffling. It says that women are lesser than men and should be subject to them and it says it very very clearly.
The bible is most definitely subject to interpretation based on the reason 95% of it is illegible without interpretation.
As far as I know, taking that thing literally is a very Protestant/Evangelical way of looking at it.
Like, I distinctly remember in catholic education at school (since that was at the time my “official” religion) the teacher mentioning this. As an example they mentioned Jesus allegedly walking on water. Was it a miracle actually performed? Maybe. More likely it’s just a story made up to convey a message about Jesus since humans cannot physically walk on water and the act of walking on water alone is meaningless without interpretation.
You’re missing my point entirely and focusing on one sentence. What I’m saying is that these letters were alleged to be intended for Timothy from Paul and when taken in context, provide a good few recommendations on how to conduct a ministry.
This specific passage is not a directive to all churches at all times or even to all women in all places. This passage is specific to the area of Ephesus where culturally, people fuck a lot. It’s what they do and they are proud about it. Timothy was sent there to help a church which had struggled with the cultural sexuality and Paul says more or less “Those people are all horny, let’s not put women in front of them and risk tempting them sexually.” It was not to say “all women should hide away and shut up.” Like it might seem outside of the passages context.
If this is so why is it such an article of faith for most of the next 2000 years that women not be allowed to serve as religious leaders. Your reading is just ahistorical. Ignores all other verses that clearly delineate the subservience of women and reasoning for same.
How other people chose to use the scripture is not within my control. I just wanted to point out the context. I also pointed out in my OP that I am a former member of the church.
Al the books in the new testament are named after the man who told the story or wrote the letters, so yes it does.
But those men were divinely inspired, right? After all that’s what I, an atheist, keep hearing from apologists.
Divine inspiration is not God taking over the body of man to write some words down. Despite what atheist on the internet want you to believe, religious scholars are still scholars and do have quite a high bar for intelligent discussion.
Other Christians in this thread seem to think you’re wrong and it’s not even up for debate https://lemmy.world/post/38611837/20430136
That’s not at all what that person said. Also I may be wrong but I think that person is making a joke.
I didn’t say the book of Timothy was not Divine Inspiration. I said Divine Inspiration is not God taking over the body of a man to write his thoughts down for us. Instead, Divine Inspiration is more akin to teaching that have God’s stamp of approval.
If you want an interesting topic to search around though, look into canonization of scripture. Churches all around the world have different books that are regarded as canon and divinely inspired. The Bible is not as straightforward as any church would have you believe.
In this case you’re saying it, not hearing it.
You’re a self-proclaimed atheist promoting the worst interpretations of the bible because that’s what comfortable for you.
I’m not promoting anything, I’m sharing what I keep getting flung to my head
I think its pretty clear that the word of man is not just like their opinion its the inspiration of the divine. It’s not really up for debate.
It’s funny, it is in fact up for debate which texts are divinely inspired as all the major churches have different canonizations around the world. Lots of crossover obviously, but plenty of questions about what should and shouldn’t be in the Bible.
It’s pretty clear that none of the individual sects consider which texts to follow up for debate and they used to murder you for having a different opinion. It is pretty clear that any new found mental flexibility is both heretical and ahistorical
You should read up on the concept of the Canon. They are part of the New Testament, which is part of the Bible, which is Scripture. This is objective fact. There is no slinking away from that even if the words may disturb you.
Scripture does not mean word of god. It just means a bunch of dudes in 325 C.E. decided that they thought that should be considered truth.
No. It’s subjective labeling far removed from facts.