Germany plans to treat the use of date rape drugs like the use of weapons in prosecutions as part of measures to ensure justice for survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault.
“We classify date rape drugs, which are increasingly used as a widespread tool in crimes, as weapons. This creates the basis for significantly stricter prosecutions,” Alexander Dobrindt, the interior minister, said on Friday. “We are committed to clear consequences and consistent enforcement. Women should feel safe and be able to move freely everywhere.”
Nearly 54,000 women and girls were the victims of sexual offences in Germany in 2024 – an increase of 2.1% on the previous year – of which nearly 36% were victims of rape and sexual assault.
I have some problem with this proposal:
- These drugs are around also, you know, for sick people who need them. It is the case of my mom who has multi sclerosis and the only pain killer effective on her is known as a rape drug.
- Chemical submission can be achieved with a wide range of things, most commonly use it probably alcohol, regular drinks such as wine and beer. Attempting chemical submission with those shouldn’t fly under the radar of justice!
- I think it would be much more effective to amend the law in order for all cases of chemicals submission (with or without rape) and rapes to be brought to justice
- A big issue that is ignored with this proposal is, victims often don’t report the aggression or don’t complete the full procedure. Police and Justice system personnel must be better trained about these cases of rape and rape with chemical submission in order for the victims to be able to report their aggression without feeling judgement or shame through out the entire process, from the police report until the conclusion of the court.
Isn’t being raped enough to ensure justice for survivors?
No. Drugging them is enough of a threat even if the culprit doesn’t manage to rape his victim. Treating at attempt to drug someone with a date rape drug as assault sounds like it might be a very good idea. Though I admit I haven’t thought about all the angles yet.
I see, but isn’t alcohol also able to do this? Did I just drink a weapon with my pizza?
Wow Dobrindt say something that is not completely braindead and illegal? Wonders still exist.
I kind of had an issue with this at first read, because if anyone is taking some ghb (and not using it to rape people) having weapons charges is ridiculous.
But I’ve got no issue with increased penalties for anyone using this stuff to rape someone. There should be no fucking quarter to anyone caught doing this.
Increased penalties if you’re caught taking them yourself recreationally are ridiculous though.
I mean, they literally are weapons…
Potentially deadly
Poison has been a weapon for ages, so I fully agree.
I was originally against this because I hate it when language is reconstituted and made murkey, but I looked it up and you’re right.
I’m still not sure this is the same as poison, but it can certainly be harmful so it’s not that big a stretch.
Maybe someone more educated than me on the topic can be more descriptive of how it would be classified. Would it not be a chemical weapon by definition?
This does not matter. In a criminal context weapon usually means something capable of inflicting great harm as a tool commit or execure a crime. If you steal something while having a screwdriver in your backpack you are screwed (literally) since you could have used it for executing the robbery. While the rules here may not be that strict (possession of said drugs while commuting sexual assault) using drugs to commit sexual assault of any form would be the same as using a knife to force the victim to not resist. There are no further classifications like chemical or mechanical weapon, since it does not matter.
In a logical world it would be. But criminally I don’t think anywhere differentiates type of weapon other than “firearm” and “deadly”.
They need to fully separate it from date rape too. Back in my younger days I knew 3 different dudes who got dosed out at bars. I highly doubt they were intended rape victims, but a lot of robberies start out with someone slipping something into your drink, then getting you in the parking lot.
Drugging anyone for anyone reason should qualify as attempted manslaughter. Which, counter intuitively is a real charge.
It makes it easier to charge rapists too because you don’t have to prove rape, and can even charge them before a rape happens. If you can prove rape, throw it on top as additional charges.
Drugging someone is maybe not manslaughter (depends on what drug you use and what dose you use) but it is always assault and can be prosecuted as such.
I think the primary distinction is that a weapon in a criminal context is typically something that is used to threaten/coerce someone, or to enable you to cause (more/more severe) physical harm/incapacitation in a physical altercation.
Date rape drugs aren’t used to threaten/coerce people, and whilst they can cause harm, it is generally not the intended goal when someone uses them. And intent/willingness to use a weapon to physically harm someone, in my opinion, is a relevant distinction to relatively “”“peacefully”“” knocking someone out. Of course committing date rape is still an utterly horrific thing, and people who do it should be charged and held accountable to the fullest extent of justice, but it is still different from threatening someone with a weapon and forcing yourself on them. (Also, whilst I have no actual data on this, it seems logical to me that a conscious victim is far more likely to receive (more serious) injuries as they struggle, vs. an unconscious one)
So whilst I agree that classifying date rape drugs as weapons is a good move, there definitely are relevant distinctions as to why drugs are typically not considered weapons.
The thing about “date rape drugs” is that plenty, I would say most of, their users are not using them for SA. GHB for example, is/was a pretty common party drug, especially in the gay scene. “Roofies” or Flunitrazepam, are one of the rarest drugs going these days, prescription or illicit. Xannax fits that bill these days. So depending on how the legislation is written, if these drugs are only classified as weapons in assault cases, I suppose that’s good. But I don’t agree with the further criminalization of drugs in general.
Also the most common date rape drug bar none is Alcohol
You make a good point that there aren’t more classifications, the only other one I can think of is state dependent, and that’s vehicular manslaughter.
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This is kind of smart.
Ah, KO-Tropfen?
Ridiculous overreach of justice yet again. Psychotropic substances usually associated with date rape like GHB/Liquid Ecstasy are used recreationally by the overwhelming majority of people. The fact that they can be used to for sexual assault is tragic, but nobody should be charged with a crime they did not commit.
Slippery slope, but what else can you expect from these clowns.If I punched you, that would be assault.
If I hit you with a hammer, that would be assault with a weapon.
If I stood beside you with a hammer and did not harm you at all, then I have not committed any crime.
No-one is going to be charged with crimes they didn’t commit because of this. Classifying them as a weapon is only relevant for cases in which they were actively used to commit sexual assault, much the same way that a hammer only counts as a weapon if I assault you with it.
Though I understand why you came away with the impression you did — I am often exasperated at weird drug laws that are overly prohibitive and often unscientific in how they criminalise relatively low risk drugs, which meant that I also initially had the same reading of this news as you did. Fortunately, it seems that this is not an example of one of those silly drug laws, but an actually sensible measure.
That seems more sensible than how I initially understood it. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
The post OP included that clarification in the very first sentence in the post.
I really don’t think it does, but the article might.
I feel ya. Didn’t pass a quick smell test for me either.
A weapon isn’t an illegal possession…
By an overwhelming majority? Really? Seems just a tad exaggerated…
I think they meant the overwhelming majority of people who have/use them, not of people in general.
In the way that sometimes a hammer can be a tool and sometimes a hammer can be a weapon, so can drugs. Two things can be true.
