• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      10 hours ago

      Trotsky had some good points, and some terrible points, both theoretically and personally.

      Trotksyism has essentially been a western-friendly form of Marxism-Leninism that tries to be what Marxism-Leninism is, but with no party discipline and no support for Actually Existing Socialism. Trotskyist orgs relentlessly bash socialist countries, and split over and over again. They haven’t really done much of anything.

      • pineapple@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        30 minutes ago

        Trotskyist orgs relentlessly bash socialist countries.

        I have seen this a lot. Like there are no currently succesful socialist countries. Are they just waiting for world revoluton?

        But I also don’t want to be yet another leftist that believes there theory is the best and everyone could just end leftist fighting if they became a [insert my prefered leftist theory]

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          16 minutes ago

          You can’t end leftist infighting by hoping for everyone to become the same kind of leftist, especially because different tendencies are often influenced by the given class character of a country. It’s why agrarian communists are more likely to be Maoists, like what’s found in the Naxalites, whereas western communists tend to be Trots. Marxism-Leninism is found everywhere, because it’s the tendency that has most been tested in real life.

    • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      20 hours ago

      They are often incredibly stubborn and unwillingly to adapt socialist strategy to their different material conditions

    • folaht@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      21 hours ago

      I actually don’t know. I’m not that well-versed in communism, but I’ll try to make a suggestion:

      Marx never said to force communism, an envisioned futuristic system, to happen, the same way that one shouldn’t force capitalism in the year 900, during the time of fuedalism if some visionary would predict such of type of governance to happen in the year 800. Even if you think capitalism is better than fuedalism, trying to implement it by introducing ballot boxes, constitutions, parliaments and such, likely would get you killed by the nobility and/or clergy, because you forgot to increase the increase the power of the merchants first, so that they could revolt, with lawyers by their side, or better said in front of them, against the old powers.

      Trotsky wanted to implement a world government or capilalists will do everything in their power to try to destroy it.
      Stalin wanted to develop socialism further in the Soviet Union into a better working model for other countries to emulate.

      Furious debates ensued on who was on the right track.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        8 hours ago

        Kinda.

        Marx’s point wasn’t that you shouldn’t try to advance modes of production, just that the ideas prevalent among the dominant classes at the time are shaped by their material conditions. Trotsky thought this meant socialism in Russia was impossible due to having a high number of the peasantry, thinking them incapable of allying with the proletariat. He was wrong. Stalin’s decision to not attack the peasantry, and instead focus on developing socialism within the USSR, led to the firm establishment of the first socialist state.

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        23 hours ago

        I’ve mostly seen non-ml socialists and anarchists. I don’t know what you’ve heard, but Trotsky was also ML.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          10 hours ago

          Trotskyists reject the term ML, instead preferring “Marxist and Leninist” over “Marxist-Leninist” to distance themselves from the soviet union, Trotsky himself rejected the ML label as well.

          As far as not seeing many Marxist-Leninists, lemmy.blahaj.zone blocks Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, which have the bulk of the Marxist-Leninists on Lemmy.