Robin Williams’ daughter Zelda says AI recreations of her dad are ‘personally disturbing’::Robin Williams’ daughter Zelda says AI recreations of her dad are ‘personally disturbing’: ‘The worst bits of everything this industry is’
Disturbing is an understatement. I’d call them repulsive. Relatives should be the only ones with this power, if at all.
Sure as shit not corporations. Fuck.
Agreed, we desperately need regulations on who has the right to reproduce another person’s image/voice/likeness. I know that there will always be people on the internet who do it anyway, but international copyright laws still mostly work in spite of that, so I imagine that regulations on this type of AI would mostly work as well.
We’re really in the Wild West of machine learning right now. It’s beautiful and terrifying all at the same time.
It would be a shame to lose valuable things like there I ruined it, which seem to be a perfectly fair use of copyrighted works. Copyright is already too strong.
Copyright IS too strong, but paradoxically artists’ rights are too weak. Everything is aimed to boost the profits of media companies, but not protect the people who make them. Now they are under threat of being replaced by AI trained on their own works, no less. Is it really worth it to defend AI if we end up with less novel human works because of it?
Now they are under threat of being replaced by AI trained on their own works, no less.
And they themselves trained on the work of other artists too. It’s just the circle of life. AI just happens to be better at learning than humans.
Is it really worth it to defend AI if we end up with less novel human works because of it?
AI doesn’t need defending, it fill steamroll us all just by itself. We don’t really have a choice in this.
The “circle of life” except that it kills the artists’ careers rather than creating new ones. Even fledgling ones might find that there’s no opportunity for them because AIs are already gearing to take entry-level jobs. However efficient AI may be at replicating the work of artists, the same could be said of a photocopier, and we laws to define how those get to be used so that they don’t undermine creators.
I get that AI output is not identical and its output doesn’t go foul under existing laws, but the principles behind them are still important. Not only Culture but even AI itself will be lesser for it if human artists are not protected, because art AIs quickly degrade when AI art is fed back into it en masse.
Don’t forget that the kind of AI we have doesn’t do anything by itself. We don’t have sentient machines, we have very elaborate auto-complete systems. It’s not AI that is steamrolling artists, it’s companies seeking to replace artists with AIs trained on their works that are threatening them. That can’t be allowed.
The “circle of life” except that it kills the artists’ careers rather than creating new ones.
It will kill all the ones that are stuck on old technology. Those that can make the best use of AI will prevail, at least for a little while, until AI replaces the whole media distribution chain and we’ll just have our own personal Holodeck with whatever content we want, generated on demand.
However efficient AI may be at replicating the work of artists, the same could be said of a photocopier
It’s not copying existing works and never did. Even if you explicitly instruct it to copy something existing, it will create its own original spin on the topic. It’s really no different than any artist working on commission.
Don’t forget that the kind of AI we have doesn’t do anything by itself.
You are free to ignore the reality of it, but that’s simply not the case. AI systems are getting filled with essentially all of human knowledge and they can remix it freely to create something new. This is the kind of stuff AI can produce just by itself, within seconds, the idea is from AI and so is the actual image. Sentience is not necessary for creativity.
It’s not AI that is steamrolling artists, it’s companies seeking to replace artists with AIs trained on their works that are threatening them.
When the artists are that easy to replace, their work can’t have been all that meaningful to begin with.
It’s sad to see how AI advocates strive to replicate the work of artists all the while being incredibly dismissive of their value. No wonder so many artists are incensed to get rid of everything AI.
Besides, it’s nothing new that media companies and internet content mills are willing to replace quality with whatever is cheaper and faster. To try to use that as an indictment against those artists’ worth is just… yeesh.
This is the kind of stuff AI can produce just by itself, within seconds, the idea is from AI and so is the actual image.
You realize that even this had to be set up by human beings right? Piping random prompts through art AI is impressive, but it’s not intelligent. Don’t let yourself get caught on sci-fi dreams, I made this mistake too. When you say “AI will steamroll humans” you are assigning awareness and volition to it that it doesn’t have. AIs maybe filled with all human knowledge but they don’t know anything. They simply repeat patterns we fed into them. An AI could give you a description of a computer, it could generate a picture of a computer, but it doesn’t have an understanding. Like I said before, it’s like a very elaborate auto-complete. If it could really understand anything, the situation would be very different, but the fact that even its most fierce advocates use it as a tool shows that it’s still lacking capabilities that humans have.
AI will not steamroll humans. AI-powered corporate industries, owned by flesh and blood people, might steamroll humans, if we let them. If you think that will get to just enjoy a Holodeck you are either very wealthy or you don’t realize that it’s not just artists who are at risk.
Lemmy is full of Luddite Twitter artist types. It’s an echo chamber in here.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
yeah i don’t think it should be legislated against, especially for private use [people will always work around it anyway], but using it for profit is really, viscerally wrong
You know I’m not generally a defender of intellectual property, but I don’t think in this case “not legislating because people will work around it” is a good idea. Or ever, really. It’s because people will try to work around laws to take advantage of people that laws need to be updated.
It’s not just about celebrities, or even just about respect towards dead people. In this case, what if somebody takes the voice of a family member of yours to scam your family or harass them? This technology can lead to unprecedented forms of abuse.
In light of that, I can’t even mourn the loss of making an AI Robin Willians talk to you because it’s fun.
but international copyright laws still mostly work in spite of that, so I imagine that regulations on this type of AI would mostly work as well.
The thing is, people still don’t grasp the ease with which this will be possible and to a large degree already. This doesn’t need hours of training anymore, you can clone voices with three seconds of audio and faces from a single image. Simple images can be clicked together in seconds with zero effort. Give it a few more years and you video can be created with equal ease.
You can regulate commercial use of somebodies likeness, which it largely already is, but people doing it for fun is unstoppable. This stuff is here today and it will get a whole lot more powerful going forward.
What about the third option, everyone gets to have the power?
I’ve seen what Marvin Gaye and Conan Doyle’s relatives have done with the power. Dump it in the creative commons. Nobody should own the tonalities of a voice anyways, there quickly wouldn’t be any left.
Considering the internet is already a hellscape of deepfake porn, let’s not take the libertarian approach to this, 'kay?
Also, there are two major issues at hand that you are conflating.
People aren’t doing AI recreations of Robin Williams because they love the way he said “zucchini”. They are doing it because of the novelty of hearing Robin perform their material or making him say “Happy Birthday Fred” or “Jewish Space Lizards Control Kansas” or whatever. Much like with deepfake porn, the appeal is using someone against their will for your own pleasure.
The other aspect, and what the SAG and WGA strikes have been about (and which Robin famously preempted over twenty years ago), is training data. It is the idea of using past footage and performances to make a super actor (similar to what Square tried with FF The Spirits Within). So you might have Tom Cruise’s gait coupled with Ryan Reynolds’s chin and Hugh Jackman’s nipples and so forth. And, that is still a huge mess.
Prohibition has never worked before and it won’t start now
If your bad faith requirement is complete eradication, sure.
If the goal is to vastly diminish the amount of content out there by preventing monetization and providing a legal means to pull said content? As well as to vilify the concept? Then yeah, it works.
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Just to check: Vilifying deepfake porn and child porn is “not a positive moral outcome”?
Holy shit. Most libertarians at least say the quiet part quiet.
Deepfake porn is certainly debatable. Are you against rule 34 of celebrities? Of photoshopping celebrity images to make them nude? Deepfaking is just extending that idea, and if it gets popular enough no one will take nude leaks seriously anymore.
Child porn you definitely would want to be faked. So long as they are faked, real children aren’t being hurt
Found the CSAM apologist.
Prohibition of CSAM seems to be universally accepted as a thing we should keep doing. What say you to that?
In the context of close relatives being very disturbed by what is made with the person’s image, I really don’t think legally allowing absolutely everyone to do as they please with it will help.
Capitalism literally Weekend at Berniesing the corpse of Robin Williams for profit.
This is fine
This gives me Michael Jackson hologram vibes
At least that was just smoke screen trickery and not literal digital necromancy
Hate it all you want. There’s a buck to be made by our owners, so it will proceed.
Humanity at large is literally letting humanity’s owner class destroy our species’ only habitat, Earth, in the name of further growing their ego scores in the form of short term profit.
Who gives a shit about them stealing a dead celebrity’s voice in the face of that? The hyper-rich stealing IP from the regular rich is wrong and should be illegal, but is clearly pretty far down the totem pole. Let’s say we put all our effort into stopping them from doing that and win. We’re still terraforming the planet to be less hospitable to human life, Zelda Williams included.
Priorities, can we have them? And no we can’t “do both,” because we have had no success stopping the owner class from doing anything that hurts others to further enrich themselves. I’m for putting all our effort into our species still being able to feed itself and having enough fresh water.
Extremely anti post-modern-organic bias you seem to have. If we dont fill space with plastic and heat it enough, then HOW exactly do you propose we encourage establishing an entire Carbon-Polyethylene based evolutionary tree ?? 🌳
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Imagine losing your father in a tragic fashion, only for Hollywood execs to make a marketable facsimile of appearance and voice. If they could store his corpse and make it dance like a marionette they would.
Talk about retraumatizing the poor lady.
Almost 10 years without him. He was so great. This should not be his legacy.
If there is any celebrity that I hold dear, it’s Robin Williams.
You don’t need to be the son or daughter of a celebrity, just think about it 5 freaking seconds.
Another repost by the bot.
Ah, so that’s why I’ve seen my daily “someone complaining about AI” post.
Yeah. People should just accept that companies resurrect their loved ones for profit. No need to be such a buzzkill about it.
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Celebrity impersonators have existed for a really long time, I don’t see how this is any different
imaginary scenario:
you love good will hunting, you’re going thru a tough time, and you use AI to have robin williams say something gentle and therapist-y that directly applies to you and your situation – is this wrong?
I’ve asked extremely high end AI questions on ethics of this nature and after thinking for exactly 14.7 seconds it responded with:
• The ethics of generating images, sound, or other representations of real people is considered no different than active imagination when done for fun and in privacy.
• However, spreading those images to others, without the original person’s consent is considered a form of invasion of privacy, impersonation, and is therefore unethical.
Basically, you’re fine with imagining Robin Williams talking to you, but if you record that and share it with others/disseminate the content, then it becomes unethical.
• The ethics of generating images, sound, or other representations of real people is considered no different than active imagination when done for fun and in privacy.
That doesn’t sound right at all. Copying and processing somebody’s works for the sake of creating a replica is completely different than imagining it to yourself. Depending on how its done, even pretending that it’s being done solely for yourself is incorrect. Many AI-based services take feedback from what their users do, even if they don’t actively share it.
Just like looking at something, memorizing it and imitating it is allowed while taking a picture may not be, AI would not necessarily get the rights to engage with media as people do. It’s not an independent actor with personal rights. It’s not an extension of the user. It’s a tool.
Then again I shouldn’t be surprised that an AI used and trained by AI users, replies about its use as basically a natural right.
Please see the second point. Essentially you cannot commit copyright violation if you don’t distribute anything. Same concept.
These AIs are not being produced by the rights owners so it seems unlikely that they are being built without unauthorized distribution.
I get your point, but I think for the purpose of the thought exercise having the model built by yourself is better to get at the crux of “I am interested in making an image of a dead celebrity say nice things to me” especially since the ethics of whether or not building and sharing models of copyrighted content is a totally different question with its own can of worms.
I wouldn’t apply morality, but I bet it isn’t healthy. I would urge this theoretical person to consult with an actual licensed therapist.
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Kind of a mean thing to say about her dad
But it’s not her dad so I don’t get wym
The bad joke is that she’d be calling them disturbing not because it’s fucked up, but because she thinks her dad is ugly.
I’m byproduct of his sperm so my opinion counts !@!@!!
Man you really don’t have shit else to do, do you?
Like seriously how fucking empty is your life that you can’t bring yourself to do anything but troll online?
You realize you aren’t getting that time back either, right?
EDIT: Shocker, when called out right at the outset, this giant fucking pussy just bails. Nice job being an epic master troll you absolute fucking idiot. Just like all giant pussies who like to troll, he can bring the fire but can’t stand the heat.
