- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
JERUSALEM, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Israel published video on Sunday of what it described as a tunnel dug by Palestinian militants under the Gaza Strip’s biggest hospital, a focus of its search-and-destroy missions against Hamas in a war now in its seventh week.
You must log in or # to comment.
TLDR of Newsweek Article:
Fact Check: Did Israel Build Bunker Under Shifa Hospital?
The Ruling: True
Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel’s discretion in the 1980s.
It remains unclear whether Hamas operates the space beneath the hospital as a major military headquarters, even though the IDF has presented evidence of weapons stashed in the hospital.
To be clear, I personally think a concrete basement and a bunker are two different things, but without more details it’s difficult to know what the reality is.
I also find it annoying that the IDF video has multiple cuts and jumps, rather than showing directly from how you get to this tunnel from the hospital proper.
It makes it incredibly difficult to compare it to the building plans from then to see if this tunnel is indeed new or not. Which is maybe on purpose by the IDF on how they made the video?
For those curious:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsweek/
Bias Rating: RIGHT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL
Country: USA
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Magazine
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY
MBFC, a site run by one guy for which nothing is known (other than that he shares a name with a highly respected lawyer and professor). Truly the bastion of free and honest journalism. His methodology for grading has… No methodology. It’s entirely subjective.
MBFC also rates the Electronic Intifada and Moon of Alabama as having never failed a fact check. Can I start posting EI articles, too?
It’s one data point, and I wouldn’t rely solely on the Media Bias/Fact Check website. It’s a useful tool, but not the end all be all authority on bias and factual reporting. If you have something similar or better I’d love to see it.
They describe their methodology on each page, along with multiple links to multiple sources citing direct examples.
Their methodology is literally “this is the number I feel like they deserve”
Only if you don’t read anything on the page and ignore all of the evidence they present.
So this is a new tunnel that didn’t exist before? And is not a part of the large basement tunnel complex Israel made when they built al-Shifa in the 80’s?
I believe literally no-one, at any point, has claimed the tunnel is new.
I mean, the article above claims that the IDF said so in their video. And the long-standing claim by Israel has been that Hamas dug an entirely new network of tunnels beneath the hospital.
It would be strange if they were just meaning the tunnels they themselves made decades ago.
Haha you’re funny
Free Palestine.
From Hamas
And from Zionism
That word makes most people see you as the problem
Why
Since no one is bothering to answer, I’ll attempt to explain that perspective.
Many people see “Zionist” as coded language. Similar to how racists often call Black People “Thugs” in America.
Right or wrong, if you start throwing around the term “Zionist” a significant number of people will tune out to what you are saying.
To many, it also implies you anti-Israel and do not believe in a 2 state solution.
So what is the term for the large Israeli faction that seeks to occupy Palestine, has no problem stealing land or bombing children? Basically the people in charge now?
You’re not allowed to talk about that.
The Zionist community has tried really hard to conflate Zionism with Jewish identity, to the point where anything critical of Israel and Netanyahu’s regime is seen as antisemitic.
The word for this was literally never zionists. Zionism is simply the belief that the state of Israel, as a political entity, should exist.
To be clear, I have no interest in arguing this point. I only want to add context.
I think the only people who see it as coded language are those who want to avoid the fact that Zionism is religious nationalism.
Most people I come across these days that aren’t zionist shills can clearly tell the difference between anti-zionist and anti-semite.
It’s pretty obvious when you’re dealing with a zionist shill because it’s impossible for them to be even the slightest bit critical of Israel.
Maybe there are some higher-level shills that are trained to be critical of Israel to be more convincing, though.
just some observations:
in the beginning of the video it seems to be a drone, then halfway through there is a cut. lighting changes considerably, and it seems to be a person filming judging by the camera swaying side to side.
Hospitals commonly tave tunnels to access labs or similar infrastructure, some which may not be in the same oberground building.
you cant tell from the video where this is, so it could be under the hospital, or not.
The post and video on Twitter/X adds additional context, including a wider view by what is likely a drone.
“The IDF and Shin Bet security agency release new footage showing part of Hamas’s tunnel network underneath Gaza City’s Shifa Hospital, where the terror group is believed to have a main command center.
Clips are published from two separate devices that were lowered into a tunnel entrance discovered by the IDF on Thursday in the Shifa complex.
The tunnel shaft had been located on the hospital grounds under a canopy, where IDF troops had also found a Hamas pickup truck with weapons in it, similar to those used by the terror group in the October 7 attacks.
The new videos show that the tunnel shaft has a winding staircase from around three meters deep, continuing down for another seven meters until it reaches part of the tunnel network. The tunnel continues for five meters, before turning to the right and continuing for another 50 meters.
At the end of the tunnel, the footage reveals a blast door with what the IDF says is a gunhole for Hamas to shoot through.
“This type of door is used by the Hamas terror organization to block the ability of our forces to enter the organization’s headquarters and underground assets,” the IDF says.
“The findings prove beyond all doubt that buildings in the hospital complex are used as infrastructure for the Hamas terror organization, for terror activity. This is further proof of the cynical use that the Hamas terror organization makes of the residents of the Gaza Strip as a human shield for its murderous terror activities,” the IDF adds.
The IDF and Shin Bet say they are continuing to operate at Shifa to expose Hamas’s tunnel network in the area.“
oh I am not saying they are wrong per say. All Im trying to say is that this is propaganda, and you should look very carefully at and pick apart ANY propaganda
also, when the fuck did twitter stop limiting tweets?
Yeah, IDF statements should definitely be taken with a large grain of salt, but it’s still invaluable information.
And yeah Twitter/X seems all over the place. I hate it as a platform, but sometimes it’s necessary. No idea when they made direct links to Tweets work again, but they still won’t let you browse more widely without logging in.
That cut is pretty damning.
If Skippy62able can have hundreds of videos of him eating without cuts, I think the Israeli military can record a hospital without cuts.
You know, especially considering lives are on the line and Israel has a reputation for lying and never facing consequences.
Remember the Samson Option? Remember how Israel is the only nation with nuclear weapons that hasn’t admitted to having them?
I 'member. Don’t take a single thing that shithole says at face value, or its American puppet.
2 wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t get why ppl have to pick sides on this.
Hamas is commiting war crimes by using these civilian facilities as shelter, and Israel and the US and comitting war crimes by bombing them. Both are wrong and whataboutism doesn’t change that.
Support for Palestinians is not support for Hamas.
We are happily anti-Israel and anti-Hamas.
You should be anti-IDF and anti-Netanyahu. There are plenty of innocents in Israel who do not want to conquer Palestine.
Last I checked Israel was a democracy, and has had plenty of time to stop its actions.
If the Israeli people don’t like being judged by the actions of their chosen government representing them than it’s on them to change that.
Then why are they living in Israel?
Paying Israeli taxes. Helping the Israeli economy. Serving in the Israeli military which they’re all required to do.
Heh. Kind of hard to make the ‘civilian’ argument when all of your civilians are required to join the military.
Because that’s their home, and they were likely born their.
And Hamas has majority support in Palestine, so if the above is anti-Hamas but not anti-Palestine, then they should be anti-IDF but not anti-Israel.
then they should be anti-IDF but not anti-Israel.
How exactly does that work when all Israeli citizens are required to join the military?
Because it’s only a 30 month service. The majority of Israelis aren’t actively in the IDF, and the majority have never been anywhere near Gaza.
uh did you reply to the right comment?
nowhere did I take any sides, and nowhere did I compare anything or bring up something else, so youre response makes absolutely no sense
I was just adding to your comment, as people try to figure out if it was really a hospital or not. No need to be fragile, it’s called a discussion.
ah I see, sorry. I thought you were responding to me, and not adding to my comment
All good, i guess i’m just annoyed at people who are looking to know if it’s realllly a hospital or not. Like that would change that they are both horrible (Hamas, Israel).
It wasn’t aimed at people like you just adding context. I guess I could have just started my own thread haha, that was a bit confusing i agree
The thing is that I can very clearly see that Israel is bombing a hospital. But so far I haven’t seen anything that shows that Hamas had a military base under it. I’ve been shown some weapons and vehicles, which could easily have been staged, and some doors and tunnels that may be connected to the hospital and which may have entirely peaceful purposes.
I have to say, also, that I’m no longer taking Israel at it’s word, not since they were caught out lying about the almost pristine “top secret” attack plans and maps that supposedly were carried through 80-degree heat for several hours, through at least one battle, were “recovered” by Israeli soldiers who checked that the bodies were dead before searching them and finding the “battle plans”, then carried around by the Israeli soldiers before they conveniently “ran into” some reporters who were allowed to take quick pictures of the “battle plans”. Remarkably pristine those “battle plans”, for everything they’ve supposedly been through, they’re not even folded over next to the staple …
I wonder how they’ll try to spin this now.
“Oh no those aren’t weapons, those are medical devices that cure poor Palestinians!”
One of the hostages is visibly wounded in his arm and is brought on a hospital bed, while the second is forcefully dragged into the hospital.
“These findings prove that the Hamas terror organization used Shifa Hospital on the day of the massacre itself as terror infrastructure,” the IDF says.
Who knew bringing wounded hostages to a hospital was “terror infrastructure”. They’re not even really trying.
Ah so that’s the next talking point. Completely ignoring the non hurt hostage being dragged in against their will. Bold strat. Terror apologist are disgusting. Not to mention the videos we have of Hamas fights magically producing rpgs and munitions in the area and firing them.
God what utterly braindead leaps of bad faith argumentation. Hostage taking: bad. Getting hostage’s wounds treated: good. The article even says they were taken somewhere else afterward.
Do you realize how insane you sound? The person you’re talking to expresses skepticism and uses their critical thinking, while not taking sides, and you’re accusing them of being a terror apologist.
Here’s a crazy idea: you can be critical of both hamas and the idf. Being suspicious towards information that can be instrumentalized and asking questions to one side at one point is not and endorsement of the other side.
deleted by creator
I mean if it makes your world view look bad, you’ll tell yourself anything to be skeptical of news that your side was in fact digging tunnels and using the hospital as a shield
see my other comment
All Im trying to say is that this is propaganda, and you should look very carefully at and pick apart ANY propaganda
but guessong by your comment you dont really care
What strikes me is the complete discordance of the realities of Israelis and Palestinians shown in the pictures attached to the article. There’s multiple pictures of a grand funeral with flags, pomp, and circumstance…and compare that to the white sheets and mass graves in Gaza. The Israeli soldier gets a military funeral with honors and fanfare while innumerable Palestinians are interred in barely marked mass graves with little to no ceremony because the number of dead simply does not allow for paying respects to each victim.
Is this according to the same Israel that called a water reservoir an “opening into the Hamas tunnels?”
The same one that released a faked video of a “nurse from al-Shifa?”
The very same.
Ngl, I am not surprised. Hamas average
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
This is the best summary I could come up with:
JERUSALEM, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Israel published video on Sunday of what it described as a tunnel dug by Palestinian militants under the Gaza Strip’s biggest hospital, a focus of its search-and-destroy missions against Hamas in a war now in its seventh week.
While acknowledging that it has a network of hundreds of kilometres of secret tunnels, bunkers and access shafts throughout the Palestinian enclave, Hamas has denied that these are located in civilian infrastructure like hospitals.
In an update on operations in Gaza City’s Al Shifa Hospital, the Israeli military said its engineers had uncovered a tunnel 10 metres deep and running 55 metres to a blast-proof door.
“This type of door is used by the Hamas terrorist organisation to block Israeli forces from entering the command centres and the underground assets belonging to Hamas,” said a military statement accompanied by video showing a narrow passage with arched concrete roofing, ending at a grey door.
The statement did not say what was beyond the door.
The tunnel had been accessed through a shaft discovered in a shed within the Shifa compound that contained munitions, it said.
The original article contains 187 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 0%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Country invades another country. Is outraged to find that country’s military.
This is more like “is outraged to find out a hospital has a basement”
This is more like “is outraged to find out a hospital has a basement which they themselves built years ago"
