I’m not playing this “oooh our food is cheap” bullshit game only to find out that is because the wait staff is underpaid. I came here to eat, not do math in my head while looking over the menu, INCREASE THE DAMN PRICES. I don’t give a shit if it ends up costing MORE than tipping as long as the cost is fucking upfront.
I’m not your employer, I’m not paying you. And if your employer can’t keep the restaurant afloat without underpaying you then that bitch should SINK. I’M SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT.
Yes, but until we have a systematic change to remove tipping and pay them a livable wage, not tipping results in them having less money. So either don’t go to the restaurant, or tip. With the knowledge of the system that we have, Going to the restaurant and not tipping is a scummy move in the US. Doesn’t matter who’s at fault for the situation being shitty.
Are you seriously saying that the customer who pays full price and no more is “a piece of shit”, and not management who chooses to underpay the staff?
I’m not having any of that. I’d rather just not eat out. Enjoy no tip AND one less customer.
I’ll pay extra when I get extra. I paid over 150% yesterday. I’ve given big tips for free services. People sometimes give my cash tip back assuming I accidentally gave them 10x my intention. But not when it’s a simple transaction when I get what I ordered and I’m paying the advertised price.
Fair enough, they can both be shit. I just don’t see how it’s my responsibility as a customer, to fix the problem that the resto is underpaying its staff.
The way I usually do my part to help workers who are not treated well, is to boycott the employer. If tipping is seen as a solution to that problem, I’d call that enabling. Tipping is the only reason restos can get away with grossly underpaying their staff. I don’t want to support that.
Either you don’t understand anything about wage lawsin the US or you just aren’t grounded in reality. Yes, lowering somebody’s income because you don’t like their boss’s business decisions is a dick move. Indeed, the solution in this case is for you not to eat out in the US because you are apparently incapable of thinking about the consequences of your actions and who they really affect.
Are you really that stupid/shortsighted? Or is the anger at the system just clouding your judgement as I had suggested?
The person who pays “full price and no more” in this case is @Shayeta… who was just suggesting that the price be increased so the “more” is in the price. “Full price” is whatever the shitty owner says it is, not whatever the product or service is worth and definitely not what the customer thinks it’s worth.
So $10 plus a $3 tip is “paying extra” to you people but you’re gonna happily pay the same shitty owner $15 “and no more” for the same meal literally because they said so. I think the clearest I can be is to point out that they’re offering the “extra,” just exclusively to the owners and never to the workers.
Now I’m wondering whether it’s some shamefully covered-up phobia of maths or just licking some capitalist footwear under the guise of a kind of false consumerism.
Knowing how much food+service costs up front benefits the customer by allowing them to make an informed decision.
Having a higher pay benefits the workers by making their income consistent and allowing them to more easily compare salaries offered by different restaurants.
Tipping in its current state benefits only the owner by lowering operational costs and forcing the workers to depend on the generosity of the customer, conviniently making workers feel like they are getting shafted by the customer instead of the person who actually hired them.
So $10 plus a $3 tip is “paying extra” to you people
Yes. The price is 10. I pay 13. That’s 3 more. Simple math.
you’re gonna happily pay the same shitty owner $15 "and no more
That’s a straw man argument. I probably won’t support a shitty owner at any price.
What I want is to know the price up front, without checking for loopholes, adding tips and whatever. I don’t care how simple the math is, or how much I love math or how good I am at calculating in my head, or how big the impact is to my personal economy.
I see a price, I either pay it or I don’t. There’s a reason that anything else is literally illegal where I live.
You’re welcome to have your opinion, this is mine.
Again, I don’t mind tipping if I actually get extra. I’m a big tipper, if I get more than I’m paying for.
just licking some capitalist footwear under the guise of a kind of false consumerism
Wow, that’s American level defense of capitalism. Where I’m from, we pay a lot more attention to consumer rights and employee rights.
The only way to institute change in an industry is by changing the supply/demand dynamics. If servers are underpaid, there’ll be less people willing to be servers (supply goes down) which will drive prices up. Every time you tip, you are intentionally interfering with the fair market for service labour.
The solution to the problem is not to grin and bear the status quo, but to convince other people to not tip. At least, according to typical economic theory.
Tipping is inherently part of any fair market service, as are cultural customs. Your misunderstanding of the scope and intersectionality of economics isn’t atypical tho.
There are a million solutions to any problem. Government was formed in order to make the unifying process of solving problems easier.
This problem hasn’t been solved for a hundred years by ‘market forces’, maybe it’s time for the government to change something, especially when restaurants are already a struggling business type.
Do you live in the US and actually understand the laws and cultural problems surrounding this issue? I understand you think economics is all econ 101 but it ain’t lol.
I’ve seen restaurants that add a per-person Christmas booking fee for dinner on 24-26 December. I’d assume it is for the wait staff, but the union conditions aren’t really all that great for the service industry.
The difficulty is that tipped employees, in some parts of the United States, can (and do) make as little as $2.13/hr. Laws ostensibly exist to ensure that tipped employees make minimum wage (federally mandated at $7.25/hr), but, due to a variety of factors, this isn’t always the case (to say nothing of the fact that $7.25/hr is hardly a living wage).
I spent 25+ years in food service. It was a lot of fun and seemingly good money when I was younger. Now that I’m 40, things like dependable pay and benefits trump the fun I had waiting tables and bartending all those years.
You are, but the original comment specifically said Americans eating out on Thanksgiving. Naturally, they assumed you were talking about overtime laws in the Netherlands in relation to the lack of holiday pay in the American food service industry, but apparently you weren’t.
So, I guess the question is, did you see the part where we were talking about the US?
Americans are struggling with the idea that other countries exist. I’m pretty sure most of them think that the Netherlands is the island from Peter Pan.
Being an asshole doesn’t change societal expectations you’re just fucking over your server. If you want to protest tip culture then stop going to sit-down restaurants entirely.
Hey asshole, if you don’t want to tip waiters then you can stop eating out. Especially on a holiday. Fuck this entitled attitude that you get to punish workers because of cultural/business decisions out of their control… And fuck lemmy for upvoting you.
Naw man, 0% that shit.
I’m not playing this “oooh our food is cheap” bullshit game only to find out that is because the wait staff is underpaid. I came here to eat, not do math in my head while looking over the menu, INCREASE THE DAMN PRICES. I don’t give a shit if it ends up costing MORE than tipping as long as the cost is fucking upfront.
I’m not your employer, I’m not paying you. And if your employer can’t keep the restaurant afloat without underpaying you then that bitch should SINK. I’M SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT.
We’re all sick and tired of it. That doesn’t mean you have to fuck over the wait staff to make your point.
The customers are not fucking over the wait staff, the owners are.
Yes, but until we have a systematic change to remove tipping and pay them a livable wage, not tipping results in them having less money. So either don’t go to the restaurant, or tip. With the knowledge of the system that we have, Going to the restaurant and not tipping is a scummy move in the US. Doesn’t matter who’s at fault for the situation being shitty.
Then you should attempt to convince other people in order to make change instead of being a dick to waitstaff.
Sorry you’re justifiably angry. Doesn’t give you a free pass to be a piece of shit tho
Are you seriously saying that the customer who pays full price and no more is “a piece of shit”, and not management who chooses to underpay the staff?
I’m not having any of that. I’d rather just not eat out. Enjoy no tip AND one less customer.
I’ll pay extra when I get extra. I paid over 150% yesterday. I’ve given big tips for free services. People sometimes give my cash tip back assuming I accidentally gave them 10x my intention. But not when it’s a simple transaction when I get what I ordered and I’m paying the advertised price.
Yes, I am saying that "the customer who pays full price and no more is “a piece of shit”.
“and not” ??
“management who underpays staff”.
Both of those people would be peices of shit.
I don’t really understand why you would expect anyone to think that only one of those could possibly be shit at the same time.
Fair enough, they can both be shit. I just don’t see how it’s my responsibility as a customer, to fix the problem that the resto is underpaying its staff.
The way I usually do my part to help workers who are not treated well, is to boycott the employer. If tipping is seen as a solution to that problem, I’d call that enabling. Tipping is the only reason restos can get away with grossly underpaying their staff. I don’t want to support that.
Either you don’t understand anything about wage lawsin the US or you just aren’t grounded in reality. Yes, lowering somebody’s income because you don’t like their boss’s business decisions is a dick move. Indeed, the solution in this case is for you not to eat out in the US because you are apparently incapable of thinking about the consequences of your actions and who they really affect.
Are you really that stupid/shortsighted? Or is the anger at the system just clouding your judgement as I had suggested?
The person who pays “full price and no more” in this case is @Shayeta… who was just suggesting that the price be increased so the “more” is in the price. “Full price” is whatever the shitty owner says it is, not whatever the product or service is worth and definitely not what the customer thinks it’s worth.
So $10 plus a $3 tip is “paying extra” to you people but you’re gonna happily pay the same shitty owner $15 “and no more” for the same meal literally because they said so. I think the clearest I can be is to point out that they’re offering the “extra,” just exclusively to the owners and never to the workers.
Now I’m wondering whether it’s some shamefully covered-up phobia of maths or just licking some capitalist footwear under the guise of a kind of false consumerism.
Knowing how much food+service costs up front benefits the customer by allowing them to make an informed decision.
Having a higher pay benefits the workers by making their income consistent and allowing them to more easily compare salaries offered by different restaurants.
Tipping in its current state benefits only the owner by lowering operational costs and forcing the workers to depend on the generosity of the customer, conviniently making workers feel like they are getting shafted by the customer instead of the person who actually hired them.
Yes. The price is 10. I pay 13. That’s 3 more. Simple math.
That’s a straw man argument. I probably won’t support a shitty owner at any price.
What I want is to know the price up front, without checking for loopholes, adding tips and whatever. I don’t care how simple the math is, or how much I love math or how good I am at calculating in my head, or how big the impact is to my personal economy.
I see a price, I either pay it or I don’t. There’s a reason that anything else is literally illegal where I live.
You’re welcome to have your opinion, this is mine.
Again, I don’t mind tipping if I actually get extra. I’m a big tipper, if I get more than I’m paying for.
Wow, that’s American level defense of capitalism. Where I’m from, we pay a lot more attention to consumer rights and employee rights.
The only way to institute change in an industry is by changing the supply/demand dynamics. If servers are underpaid, there’ll be less people willing to be servers (supply goes down) which will drive prices up. Every time you tip, you are intentionally interfering with the fair market for service labour.
The solution to the problem is not to grin and bear the status quo, but to convince other people to not tip. At least, according to typical economic theory.
Tipping is inherently part of any fair market service, as are cultural customs. Your misunderstanding of the scope and intersectionality of economics isn’t atypical tho.
There are a million solutions to any problem. Government was formed in order to make the unifying process of solving problems easier.
This problem hasn’t been solved for a hundred years by ‘market forces’, maybe it’s time for the government to change something, especially when restaurants are already a struggling business type.
Do you live in the US and actually understand the laws and cultural problems surrounding this issue? I understand you think economics is all econ 101 but it ain’t lol.
I’ve seen restaurants that add a per-person Christmas booking fee for dinner on 24-26 December. I’d assume it is for the wait staff, but the union conditions aren’t really all that great for the service industry.
Country: NL
Working on holidays like christmas and new years in the netherlands means 150% hourly wage.
The difficulty is that tipped employees, in some parts of the United States, can (and do) make as little as $2.13/hr. Laws ostensibly exist to ensure that tipped employees make minimum wage (federally mandated at $7.25/hr), but, due to a variety of factors, this isn’t always the case (to say nothing of the fact that $7.25/hr is hardly a living wage).
I spent 25+ years in food service. It was a lot of fun and seemingly good money when I was younger. Now that I’m 40, things like dependable pay and benefits trump the fun I had waiting tables and bartending all those years.
Did you see the part where we were talking about the Netherlands?
You are, but the original comment specifically said Americans eating out on Thanksgiving. Naturally, they assumed you were talking about overtime laws in the Netherlands in relation to the lack of holiday pay in the American food service industry, but apparently you weren’t.
So, I guess the question is, did you see the part where we were talking about the US?
Americans are struggling with the idea that other countries exist. I’m pretty sure most of them think that the Netherlands is the island from Peter Pan.
No no no it’s Michael Jackson’s Themepark!
Completely missed it. My mistake.
Same here in my part of the US
Being an asshole doesn’t change societal expectations you’re just fucking over your server. If you want to protest tip culture then stop going to sit-down restaurants entirely.
Hey asshole, if you don’t want to tip waiters then you can stop eating out. Especially on a holiday. Fuck this entitled attitude that you get to punish workers because of cultural/business decisions out of their control… And fuck lemmy for upvoting you.
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