The US Department of Justice and 16 state and district attorneys general accused Apple of operating an illegal monopoly in the smartphone market in a new antitrust lawsuit. The DOJ and states are accusing Apple of driving up prices for consumers and developers at the expense of making users more reliant on its iPhones.

  • UristMcHolland@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    247
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    9 months ago

    I don’t hate Apple but I do hate their influence. They release some wireless earbuds and then suddenly all the manufacturers “don’t have enough room for a headphone jack”, …get the fuck out of here.

    • Ultraviolet@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      9 months ago

      Deliberately degrading picture quality when the metadata says it’s from a competitor to push the narrative that they have the best cameras is also pretty low. Points for the sheer audacity, though.

        • olympicyes@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          The proof is the status quo. Video texts from Android users look bad on an iPhone. Apple could choose to fall back to RCS instead of SMS from iMessage. RCS would offer better video quality than SMS, which overall improves the interoperability of all phones. Because RCS is a standard and the natural successor to SMS, refusing to support the standard makes it less likely to succeed, with the intent of defending their dominant market share.

          • pycorax@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            While I agree with you, this isn’t as outright as I though it would be though. Apple fan boys could very easily just handwave this away. Frankly I don’t live in the US so no one here uses iMessage anyways so I don’t really have any examples I have seen or could use to show people.

    • WhataburgerSr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      Vote with your wallet.

      I’m one of the few people that use my headphone jack with Grado headphones and have had Motorola phones so I can listen to music the way I want.

      Don’t even get me started on the light green bubble shit.

      Fuck Apple.

    • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      22
      ·
      9 months ago

      But that’s not illegal. Apple can’t force competitors to be influenced by them. If Samsung, Google and the like choose to be sheep, that’s on them. I don’t use Apple products. They’re not impacting my life.

      • kaffiene@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        It’s probably safe to assume that’s not the basis for the monopoly claim

        • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          13
          ·
          9 months ago

          I should hope not. They have about 61% market share in the US. A large chunk to be sure, but hardly a monopoly. With plenty of Android OS manufacturers, there are plenty to choose from.

          • kaffiene@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Did you read the article? Their concerns are a number of anticompetiive behaviours from Apple,. Not the lack of competition. But that said, “Android” is not a competitor, Android is an OS. Samsung is a competitor and they’re nowhere near Apples size in the US

            • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              The Android OS is a competitor to iOS. Yes, Android is produced by several different manufacturers.

              • kaffiene@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                9 months ago

                It’s not a competitor in the sense of a being a company that can monopolise, which is the context of the discsussion

        • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          That’s silly. I own a Samsung phone. Checking email and the weather on it hardly “impacts” my life. Furthermore, you have the option to move to another platform if it bothers you that much. If people don’t leave, that indicates their users are willing to tolerate these issues.

          • prole@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            9 months ago

            Apple impacts your life, if indirectly, by shaping the market that they control over 50% of. I haven’t owned an Apple product since my 4th gen click wheel iPod, and I’d be a fool to suggest that their decisions don’t have an influence on my life.

            • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              Influence and impact are not interchangeable. I would agree they have some influence (indirect) as they affect their competitors and I purchase products from their competitors. They don’t impact (direct) me as I do not use any of their services or products. Apple and I do not have a direct relationship.

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Lol ok semantics.

                “Impact” doesn’t mean “direct” necessarily, that’s why the word is often used with the word “direct” or “indirect” as a modifier.

      • Sjmarf@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        OC isn’t claiming that the shift in the industry is solely Apple’s fault:

        I don’t hate Apple but I do hate their influence

        The reality is that what OC said is exactly what happened. Apple removed the headphone jack to coerce people into buying AirPods. Everyone else released their own wireless earbuds to compete, and also removes their headphone jacks for the same reason.

      • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        the 3.5mm rounded hole where you can insert your wired earphones, wired headphones, or stereo speakers

        • exothermic@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          Oh, that thing is garbage. I prefer the 6.35mm RGA jacks for superior hi fidelity quality. It’s a shame they don’t make phones with those.

            • exothermic@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              How dare. 6.35mm is superior and I for one want it on my phone. The larger jack size provides a greater surface area for conductance. Why is this important? Glad you asked, more surface area translates to less resistance at the junction, thus allowing more electrons to flow freely from your device to your ocular cavity, where sound is processed from compression waves into electromagnetic waves. The 6.35mm jack is the best option for hi-fi 256 bit color. As you can see, it’s all basic science. Source: I’m a stientist

    • iopq@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      9 months ago

      Actually it coincided with IPX rating for smartphones. The last headphone jack smartphones did not have water resistance, but the newer models did. People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

      These days you can get both, but my phone has a 3.5mm jack and NO ipx rating that I could find

      • gian @lemmy.grys.it
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        21
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        Actually it coincided with IPX rating for smartphones. The last headphone jack smartphones did not have water resistance, but the newer models did. People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

        My rugged phone is IP68 but it has Usb C connector and SIM/SD tray, so adding a headphone jack while having an IPX rating seems not impossible.

        • iopq@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          It’s not impossible, they just didn’t do it back then so we ended up in the situation we are in now. By the way, the DAC in my phone is low quality, so I hear popping and distortion when I play

          http://plasticity.szynalski.com/

          at the same time, my phone doesn’t do output to a DAC through USB because it already has a 3.5mm port, so I can’t use something higher quality

          • uis@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            I don’t think DAC is reason behind popping and distortion. Probably shit power circuit or amplifier.

            • iopq@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              It’s both, because I hear little bells in the background even at low volume. An IEM is very sensitive so needs very little power, the amplifier will perform worse as it needs to output more power.

              In fact when I use over ears, it sounds better because I increase the device volume which increases the input voltage

              Anyway, the $9 Apple dongle blows my phone’s 3.5mm jack out of the water. My tablet and desktop have the same issue, but when I connect the same devices to my ancient laptop they sound perfect.

              The point is the 3.5mm jack actually gets me worse sound quality because my phone doesn’t output audio to usb, so I only use it with my TWS. Which, by the way, also sound like crap in the same game, but it might just be Bluetooth issues

      • prole@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        People voted for a more sealed phone with their wallets.

        LOL imagine if capitalism actually worked this way…

        Edit: People seem to be missing the point. I am aware that phones with 3.5mm jacks exist. I also just understand that capitalism and “free markets” don’t actually work the way people seem to think they do. Maybe if the headphone jack was the most important feature to people, it would do better. Or maybe if it was an mp3 player and not a phone. Or maybe, simply, if it was manufactured by a brand people have heard of. Sometimes it’s literally that simple.

        But that isn’t the case, is it?

        • guacupado@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          There are literally phones still around with 3.5 jacks. You just don’t want one.

        • iopq@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          There are still phones with 3.5mm jacks and they are not the best selling models

          • prole@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            9 months ago

            Maybe people aren’t spending $500-$1200 on a device just because it has a headphone jack. Like that’s anyone’s top concern.

            • iopq@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              Zen phone 10 has everything you need and a 3.5mm jack

              Why isn’t it outselling the rest of them?

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Are you asking me to explain microeconomics to you? Ask 100 people in the US if they’ve ever heard of Zen Phone, and 99 will tell you no.

                And, again, that’s nobody’s top concern. Maybe if it was an mp3 player, rather than a phone, whether or not it has a headphone jack would be higher up on the priority list.

                • iopq@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  If it was that important, people would have heard about it

    • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      9 months ago

      That’s not Apple, that’s the free market. Samsung touted wired headphones and a headphone jack and the market still showed they wanted wireless.

      • Raiderkev@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        25
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        But we had wireless headphones already. The choice to have both was nice. Not being able to charge and use headphones sucks. Also tiny e waste pods with tiny non recyclable batteries are terrible for the environment compared to a wired pair when thrown in a landfill.

      • prole@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        and the market still showed they wanted wireless

        Or maybe people just need phones and there are only like 3 actual options.

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          That’s simply not true. Have you been in a mobile phone store recently? There’s far more than 3 brands of phone let alone 3 models per brand.

    • madeinthebackseat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      68
      ·
      9 months ago

      The anti-trust pressure has increased with this administration. Lina Kahn has been effective at the FTC in bringing a number of cases forward.

      https://www.thebignewsletter.com/ is a very well executed newsletter with more detailed information regarding anti-trust if you’re interested.

      • Defaced@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        Yeah and hasn’t she lost pretty much every case she’s brought forward? She failed big fucking time with the Microsoft/Activision merger even though all the antitrust evidence was right in front of her nose. I’m glad the FTC is trying, because they’re actually doing their job, but they’re doing an awful job when it comes to actually being in court and proving their case.

        People shit on Sony for trying to block the merger, but they absolutely were right for trying to block it and now games like starfield, the new Indiana Jones, and probably more in the future will be deliberately left off the PlayStation platform altogether. But that’s all okay right? Because now you get call of duty on gamepass!!! RIGHT???

        • anon6789@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          25
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          I see a bunch of complaints against Kahn, but I haven’t been able to find articles on what she did that someone else would have done to be more effective. I don’t normally follow this type of news, so if anyone can point me to some articles, I’d appreciate it.

          I’ve heard a few interviews with Kahn, and she sounds like someone looking to make a difference, so I’d like to cheer her on, but if she’s not the right person for the job, it’d be nice to see some examples why. I’d think much could go on to make her lose without it necessarily being due to her actions or inactions.

          • Defaced@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            https://www.law.com/corpcounsel/2023/07/18/lina-khans-antitrust-losses-cast-doubt-on-her-sue-dont-settle-philosophy/?slreturn=20240221150002 apparently she’s just taking the sledgehammer approach of suing companies instead of working with them to understand their motives and to make reasonable concessions that will benefit everyone. If those concession discussions fail then you sue and have more leverage in your case I guess. Either way, it’s a fair criticism IMO, and for the record I’m not really a right leaning individual, I just think she’s jumping into lawsuits without doing her homework first.

            • anon6789@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              Dang paywall. That’s at least something I can look into more directly though, so thank you.

              Lemmy makes me feel right wing anymore. I think the general news and politics here might be worse than Reddit, which is a shame. There’s a lot of things I’d like to learn or discuss, but half the threads might as well be bizarro MAGA rallies with how cultish they get.

              I just came back to this post from one on Angela Chao, and just like the last one about that story, people are cheering on this lady’s death because they don’t like her brother-in-law. I haven’t been able to find anything about Angela that would indicate she had it coming, but that isn’t stopping anyone. If people have valid criticism of a person or idea, share it. Don’t just keep shouting “such-and-such bad!” over and over.

              • horsey@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                9 months ago

                It didn’t used to seem that way but some of the discussions I’ve had here are actually worse than reddit recently. Take a discussion about Instagram drug sale spammers. I mean, people selling likely counterfeit “xanax” etc to anyone on social media by spamming. Who would stand up for these scumbags? People on Lemmy, apparently, who consider themselves leftists and communicate like sophomoric 19 year olds. “Drugs should be legalized anyway!” Well, that’s not going to make it legal or safe for addictive drugs to be sold on social media and uh, Xanax is legal. I found discussion of the same article on Hacker News and the difference in quality of comments was vast.

                • anon6789@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Lol that’s exactly the stuff I mean. Legalize drugs, sure. Make them safe and take the business from cartels. Legalize anonymous strangers selling random chemicals, nah.

                  It was good maybe the first 3 months of the Great Migration, then had a sharp decline. Those first few months were great.

                  I’m not here for anyone’s militant views on politics, software licensing, diet, or religion. I just tend to avoid most comment sections anymore.

              • 0xD@infosec.pub
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                9 months ago

                It’s getting worse and worse, completely agree. The reasonable people are getting pushed out by brainless zombies, just like on Twitter or something.

                • anon6789@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  We need to work more on getting in the first few comments before they get there. If I come in and hot takes are all I find, I just move on. I’m sure others do the same.

            • anon6789@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              I looked up the difference, and it seems that the majority of us have probably been raised in a place where Kahn is the more common spelling we’d encounter.

        • NotAGuyInAHat@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          I mean the Activision case was a bad case though. Microsoft bought their way into… Third place, it’s not enough to need anti trust. Furthermore, Starfield and Indy were already going to be exclusives, those are Bethesda and that acquisition was already long since completed. Plus, it’s not like that’s the invention of exclusives. Sony isn’t exactly pumping over their games to Xbox here.

        • madeinthebackseat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          The content is good, so I support the content.

          If all we ever do is hold purity contests over secondary and tertiary concerns, like the platform, we’ll never accomplish anything.

    • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      I’m willing to take the movement as a good sign. The fact that we haven’t even been talking about this shit for decades now was just depressing. It’s long past time for this shit, and the ball needs to get rolling.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        There’s a lot of corporate competitive behavior that’s ok, when you’re one of many, that isn’t anymore when you dominate the market.

        • Apple hasn’t dominated US cell phone market for decades yet
        • the same behavior is perfectly legit for laptops, because Apple is a small player in that market
        • Smartwatches are interesting - I don’t know the dynamics of that market but I don’t know anyone whose smartwatch is not Apple
        • Kairos@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          9 months ago
          • Phones haven’t been around for decades and that’s a dumb point
          • They actually don’t do the same behavior on macs because it’s illegal
          • Thank you for demonstrating the case’s point.
        • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Apple has dominated the smartphone market since the iPhone 5 in the us. I’ve managed my works mdm tool for a decade and never have I seen the android collective share surpass 10% in the pie chart it shows me of versions

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Looks like the stats are all over the place but iPhones are about 50% of US market ± 10%. Neither you nor I are representative

    • BurningnnTree@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      All I want is RCS on iPhone. I know Apple already said they’re working on it, but I hope legal pressure like this will force them to make the RCS/iMessage integration actually work well (instead of half-assing it which I assume is what they want to do, cuz they want their users to feel frustrated when texting their Android friends)

      • NebLem@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        Can’t we just move past carrier managed messaging? I’d rather my telecom to just be dumb pipes and move everyone to Signal and similar.

        • Tech With Jake@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          The iMessage lock-in is too real for some of us. I know some iPhone users who won’t even install FB Messenger (I know, I don’t use it either. Fuck the Zuck) because it’s not Apple/iMessage. I finally got my family on Signal and “OMG! We can send videos and pictures now!” Yeah, been saying it for years lol.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        All I want is RCS on iPhone

        Me too, but isn’t this a chicken and egg situation?

        • why should Apple add it if carriers don’t support and you haven’t go through Google if you want secure messaging?
        • why should carriers support it if so many phones don’t, and why are they ceding security to Google?
        • is not Google also a monopolist?
        • is RCS even a useful standard if there’s not a consensus to make it ubiquitous?
    • MedicsOfAnarchy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      Damn, I am stealing this. Too many good uses:

      “She lives in a hopium den”

      “Hopium addict”

      “Hopium of the masses”

    • BargsimBoyz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      We can hope. Happy to take a chunk out of Apple as they’re often given a free pass as their marketing and branding is so good that customers lap it up.

    • generalpotato@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      This. Smells like me too (the expression, not the movement) as opposed to a well thought out plan as to how they’ll tackle the monopoly.

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        51
        ·
        9 months ago

        Biden appointed a bunch of pretty vehemently anti-monopoly people to power, this is just how long it actually takes them to conduct an investigation thorough enough to bring suit.

        • generalpotato@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          9 months ago

          Right. Real Estate is a shit show and has been a shit show for decades with corporations buying out SFH homes and properties, driving up prices and making them unaffordable for the average American. If I was stack list of problems to tackle impacting Americans, that would be pretty high up the list instead of a tech company.

          Of course, you can and should do both, but considering time and money are finite resources, it’s very on the nose to pick this fight instead of the one that impacts Americans the most.

          I don’t think monopolies should exist, but also, we should be looking at regulations and law making instead of law suits.

          • dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            9 months ago

            I don’t know how much of that falls under the DOJ’s purview. Based on what I’ve heard from various congressional staffers, a physical letter mailed to your congressional representative actually does mean something. You can also go to your city council meetings and tell the city council they should do something about housing.

            • generalpotato@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              Oh, I’m in the heart of a place well known for exorbitant property values, and there’s been plenty of talk of “fixing housing”. Literally everybody runs on the platform of lowering property values, so I’m sure the letting your congressional staffer know has been done to death.

              In addition to that, countless articles, op-eds, research has been published in the last 4 years alone and the point I’m making is, that this DOJ move seems more political theater than anything, which is surprising coming from folks that are supposedly about consumer rights and protections.

              We need actual problems to be solved, not grand gestures and showboating of supposed take downs of “monopolies” when the laws around monopolistic practices are about as ancient as the presidential candidates trying to win points with their voter base.

      • Monument@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        9 months ago

        Awhile back a non tech person at work got hoodwinked into a sales pitch by a no name “AI” vendor. They, of course, invited a distribution list of all the IT and IT adjacent people to this pitch, thinking their ingenuity was going to transform our workplace and they were going to get accolades.

        During the pitch, the sales guy (or CEO?) talked about Google getting surprised by Open AI, and that they rushed to build Bard, so they “could have their own ‘Me Too’ moment.” (With an inflection to indicate the Me Too comment was a reference.)

        While I was watching people unmute, stay silent, then mute again, multiple group chats lit up at once.

        (And the guy either didn’t understand LLM’s, or was hoping we really didn’t. It was peak marketing speak. He got crushed in the Q&A, ultimately revealing that the extent of his offering was to resell access to an established LLM vendor.)

  • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    138
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Be prepared for a lot of hand-wringing about “security”.

    Apple, Microsoft, and Google all learned in the last couple years “security” shuts down any arguments, and they use it at every turn to justify whatever they want, regardless of the actual dangers or alternative mitigation methods they could take.

    If our modern software security means anti-competitive behavior and user lock-in tactics are OK, then that’s a problem with our security practices, and we need to reevaluate some things.

    • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      74
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      If they utter “security for children” the government will probably not only drop the lawsuit but pay Apple $20 billion.

    • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      9 months ago

      Market security maybe What’s next im not allowed to read the EULA because i may come up with nefarious ways to still use the service?

      • T156@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        9 months ago

        If you can read the EULA, then you can learn how to skirt around it, and therefore, letting you read the EULA is against the spirit of the EULA, and should be banned.

    • turkishdelight@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      They learned this line from the government. You can’t criticise goverments after they utter the magical national security buzzwords.

  • flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    79
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    9 months ago

    With Apple tipping over the ~50% market share in the US and with the current rulings in the EU, maybe the US DOJ smell blood in the water. Hopefully something unusually good for the consumer will come of this, but I won’t be shocked if it doesn’t.

    • miridius@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      I only recently found out about iPhones having 50% market share in the US and that’s insane to me. I think anyone who’s used both Android and iPhones a lot knows that iPhones are both a worse product and worse value for money, so in a fair market they would be the minority

      • Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        9 months ago

        They’re certainly a much worse value for the money and intentionally constrained in ways that maximize the profits of Apple services by making it inconvenient or impossible to use alternatives, but the UI is substantially better than Android. Aside from that and Apple device interoperability benefits, nearly any Android phone is a better choice for most people.

        • thimantha@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          Hard disagree. iOS UI/UX is sub par compared to Android. Consistent visuals and fancier animations don’t mean that the UI is good.

        • miridius@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          Agree to disagree I guess! I used an iPhone X as my daily driver for 3 years and was overjoyed to get the Android UI back when I switched back. The iPhone visuals are more consistent but the UX is significantly worse imo. There are a few things that I reckon are mainly just Apple being stubborn and refusing to admit they were wrong - e.g. the lack of a back button

            • Flit@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              9 months ago

              I have an iMac for work. Right-click is still disabled by default on macOS. One of the first things our company has us do is re-enable it. I was provided a third-party mouse, some others were provided a Magic Mouse which doesn’t have a right mouse button.

        • prole@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          but the UI is substantially better than Android.

          Yeah, hard disagree

          For one, you can make Android look/behave like anything you want.

          • A Phlaming Phoenix@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            9 months ago

            In general, I agree. I’ll add two things:

            • Android allows you to use third party launchers if you don’t like the one that comes with your phone. I use Nova Launcher, for instance. I’m not an Apple person, but to my knowledge that’s either not possible or a pain to do on an iPhone. It also lets me buy from different Android device manufacturers and keep a consistent UI across all of them.
            • Android has some serious UX issues in a few places. The one that gets me the most is when you share something. The interface you get differs based on the source app, sometimes only has a handful of visible options with no sorting or recency options, and it hides the fact that’s you can scroll to see more, but never more than about four at a time.

            Still, I’ll take it over an iPhone any day.

        • viking@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          The UI is terrible. Unintuitive and can’t be customized. What’s good about it?

    • ANIMATEK@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      63
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      I don’t think so. EU did push through with reform, the US will join sooner or later.

      • gregorum@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        59
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        The EU passed a massive, sweeping law. This is a federal lawsuit in front of an infamously conservative and pro-business Supreme Court.

        Little will come of this.

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          33
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          SCOTUS rarely (like ultra rare) gets involved in technical economic cases – they don’t have the expertise and single-issue cases which don’t present a Constitutional question are beneath the Court. Cases like this go to judges who have experience in the details of antitrust actions and are well-versed in the economic and marketplace analysis required by the type of action the DOJ is bringing here.

          • gregorum@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            19
            ·
            9 months ago

            And Apple will appeal and appeal until they get to SCOTUS where they will win that appeal

            • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              15
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              Dude, you’re out of your element. SCOTUS doesn’t take cases to reverse errors of fact.

              The DOJ will lose because we don’t have modern antitrust laws designed for modern industries, not because of anything SCOTUS is going to do.

              • gregorum@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                16
                ·
                9 months ago

                This SCOTUS will clearly do whatever they want. And if all your argument consists of is ad hominem attacks, this conversation is over.

                • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  I mean no they won’t. Also, you being out of your element isn’t ad hominem; it questions the argument. You’re out of your depth on that one.

      • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        9 months ago

        The EU passed new laws to address new needs. The US is trying to see if they can provide consumer protection with existing consumer protection laws from the past.

        Passing consumer protection laws is pretty hard when people don’t vote enough democrats into the senate and house. The GOP hates consumer protection regulation.

    • n2burns@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      If it was all Blue States, if probably agree, but it does include a few Deep Red States with North Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. That makes me cautiously optimistic.

        • n2burns@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          If was all Blue States, with a Democratic Federal DOJ, it’s quite possible that it’s just political messaging. With a mix of Blue & Red States, it’s still possible it’s messaging or a (rare) common-enemy, but it’s more likely they think something’s actually there, and they don’t want to waste their time playing nice with the “other side”.

  • Zacryon@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    What? Unbelievable. I’m shocked. Shocked, I say. This really comes as a surprise. I would’ve never expected this. No one would have seen this coming. This is really outrageous. They are innocent. I can’t comprehend this. No way! It’s not acceptable! /i

    – Apple Fan, probably (without the irony flag then)

    • cmbabul@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      9 months ago

      I mean I’m an Apple user, although not exclusively, and I am very surprised, not because Apple doesn’t deserve it, they absolutely need to be reigned in like all big tech companies. I’m surprised as hell that the US government in 2024 is attempting to crack down an extremely profitable business. You love to see it

  • Muzle84@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    42
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    9 months ago

    Apple did some sort of “tech innovations” through years, but its economical success has always been based on its locked down ecosystem.

    Apple’s marketing about its customers being part of an elite, hence zero compatibility with the ‘mass’, is disgusting imho.

    Glad to hear it could be over, especially if it comes from US lawmakers.

    • irotsoma@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      9 months ago

      I think they were fine before, because they were offering the best experience for the people who want someone else to configure things for them and make decisions on privacy, security, etc., for them. Problem now is that they no longer offer much in the way of brand new user experiences that no one else offers, and additionally they don’t prioritize the user’s privacy and convenience and prioritize how much money they can make with the centralized user information they control and don’t allow the user to make decisions on their own privacy and security.

  • JCreazy@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    9 months ago

    Now we just need the US to force carriers to automatically unlock phones after they are paid off.

    • Kairos@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      34
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      They do actually. What you’re talking about is unlocking the bootloader.

      I wanted to borrow a friend’s [old] phone to try out graphene but he got it from Verizon and they keep the bootloaders locked so it was worthless.

      • MyNamesNotRobert@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        As soon as smartphones started becoming commonplace in like 2009 or so, I dropped Verizon because I wasn’t going to pay $500 for a smartphone that couldn’t have custom roms. Verizon can go fuck themselves.

      • JCreazy@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        A lot of carriers make you wait a certain period of time before unlocking. I’m hoping that I can get my phone unlocked so I can install graphene OS. I got a good deal on it so that’s why I bought it locked, I’m going to degoogle it as much as possible until I can get the bootloader unlocked.

          • JCreazy@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            I am well aware but you can’t unlock the boot loader without having a phone carrier unlocked.

            • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              It’s been a while since I did it, but every single time I’ve unlocked a bootloader it’s been on a carrier-locked device. I’d usualy do it to remove carrier bloat.

              • JCreazy@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Carrier Unlocking is required before a phone can be bootloader unlocked, at least on my Pixel 8.

                • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Ahh - I think I see what you’re getting at.

                  I think the Pixel allows unlocking the bootloader, so it’s just the carrier in the way.

                  Most phones have to be hacked to unlock the bootloader because of the manufacturer locking it, so the carrier doesn’t really matter since you’re having to bypass locks anyway.

  • NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    9 months ago

    We all know that these accusations are true.

    So much so that I need to ask: is it really illegal to do all these things?

    • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      Smarter Americans in that past recognized that freedom, including the free market, doesn’t just happen of its own accord, that it has to be defended, legislated. That is how antitrust laws came to be in arguably the most capitalist nation on earth.

      Apathetic Americans now have lost sight of the importance of protecting their freedoms.

      “Illegal” is not just some hypothetical moral absolute. It is the politics of defending one’s values. Americans clearly no longer value either their freedoms or the free market.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      No, these are not illegal activities until you add “as a monopoly”. Antitrust laws are fine with all sorts of behavior as part of competition but not when you dominate a market and it keeps new competitors out

      Everything here will hinge on whether Apple is a monopoly in the markets of concern. I’m sure there are legal definitions and precedents for that.

    • popcap200@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      The EU said so, and the US did successfully sue valve for monopoly practices.

      • Kedly@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        Except it wasnt successful since its still in the court, and Valve has counter sued for the lawsuit “abuse(ing) the legal process and interfer(ing) with Valve’s relationships with its customers”

        • popcap200@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          Oh lol my b. I saw the ads for being eligible for compensation and thought they lost.

      • AA5B@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        EU decisions carry no legal weight in US, and I’m sure the laws are very different. Maybe it signals opportunity and regulator opinion but they’re completely independent decisions

    • horsey@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      9 months ago

      I’ve wondered that in the past when people say Apple has a monopoly - there seems to be choice in the market. One can function fine with an Android phone. But people have said “they have a monopoly on iPhones” which doesn’t make much sense to me. Of course they do, but that’s not the same as a monopoly on mobile phones. Also having a monopoly isn’t illegal, only abusing it is. It’s not legal to have a successful proprietary product?

      • NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        I’ve wondered that in the past

        Well, now you have your answers here in all detail, but it seems you didn’t read them.

        • horsey@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          I didn’t say I was wondering now. I said I was wondering in the past. In any event, i expect to find out from the court case, not online comments from people who probably lack expertise in antitrust law and are not attorneys.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          I also wonder the same, and wish you’d point to those answers, but I think that’s what this whole thing is : a day in court to establish those answers

  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    The apple watch thing is kinda interesting.

    So you make a watch and it has super tight integrations with OS level software on the phone.

    I can’t imagine they can force apple to write an Android app, which doesn’t even have the same system level access as their OS app and provide some sort of degraded service.

    Maybe they could force them to let it function in some limited way but where do you draw the line on forcing them to write android apps?

    • JoeCoT@fedia.io
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      They don’t have to force them to make an app. Instead they could make them provide an interface that an app can use. Instead of their current strategy of thwarting any attempt to make their ecosystem interoperable with competitor’s devices. I imagine them instantly killing Beeper’s connection to iMessage was a part of this move.

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      I can’t imagine they can force apple to write an Android app, which doesn’t even have the same system level access as their OS app and provide some sort of degraded service.

      No, they can’t really force it. But it’s evidence in support of the accusation.

      But I wanted to point out, Android is much, much more permissive in what peripherals and apps can do. And they’d likely be able to bake Android support in by utilizing the already available Wear OS API.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        But I wanted to point out, Android is much, much more permissive in what peripherals and apps can do.

        That’s kinda true, but not what I was getting at. Android has restrictive background processing limits and the APIs around it keep getting more restrictive and the OEMs like Samsung keep ignoring the rules of how things should work and break your apps when you do it right anyway… Ultimately it’s incredibly difficult to write an app and guarantee background work.

        Apple, is even worse on its restrictions of background work, but Apple owns the OS and and can bypass it all for their watch.

        Apple will never get to bypass the fuckery you have to deal with on Android, only the Android OEMs get that.

          • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            9 months ago

            What do you do though if Apple is telling the truth and allowing 3rd party wallets would degrade the security even for their own wallet?

            • 4am@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              9 months ago

              I would ask them to prove that claim in court for starters.

              I would ask them why they feel they’d be liable for users who installed and gave permission to an app that would use NFC readers for payments.

              I would ask them why access to the NFC reader by a 3rd party app in any way allows access to Apple Pay’s stored, encrypted data (which it doesn’t need)

              I would ask why permission settings and security validations couldn’t be made on API calls with the potential to be harmful. Even for third-party app stores, Apple could still require app reviews and code signing for any apps that want to conduct financial transactions; they just don’t want to because they’ll make less money from Apple Pay.

              Apple often handholds user flows and restricts access to features because non-technical folks might be tricked into installing a malicious or insecure service, and Apple stuff is built for non/technical people. But, on the flipside, they often leverage this position to wall you into their garden. This is the problematic practice that needs to be addressed.

            • Zak@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              9 months ago

              Perhaps they aren’t lying, but claims about security often involve theoretical weaknesses that aren’t practical to exploit in the real world. Apple is very skilled at making sure those claims align with their business interests.

            • 0xD@infosec.pub
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              It would not. It’s really as simple as that, saying as someone with two degrees in cyber security and 7 years of experience as a security consultant for various companies from small shops to multinational businesses, banks, and insurance companies.

              I would love to see their threat modelling to justify what they’re saying to brainwash their acolytes… It’s a pure strawman to justify their bullshit.

    • shrugal@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      They don’t have to make extra apps, just remove restrictions that make some functionality exclusive to iPhones or Apple Watches. So iPhones get the same access to Apple Watches as other phones, and Apple Watches get the same access to iPhones as other watches.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago
      • You can use an Apple Watch without an iPhone.
      • anyone can create and sell a Watch App - Apple maintains the store and basic functionality
      • you can use another brand Watch with an iPhone - I see the apps
      • DjMeas@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        I think the point though is you might be able to connect a Garmin to your iPhone but only Apple Watches get special access to certain APIs because “security”.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    9 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    The US Department of Justice and 16 state and district attorneys general accused Apple of operating an illegal monopoly in the smartphone market in a new antitrust lawsuit.

    It alleges that Apple “selectively” imposes contractual restrictions on developers and withholds critical ways of accessing the phone, according to a release.

    “Apple exercises its monopoly power to extract more money from consumers, developers, content creators, artists, publishers, small businesses, and merchants, among others,” the DOJ wrote in a press release.

    “For years, Apple responded to competitive threats by imposing a series of ‘Whac-A-Mole’ contractual rules and restrictions that have allowed Apple to extract higher prices from consumers, impose higher fees on developers and creators, and to throttle competitive alternatives from rival technologies,” DOJ antitrust division chief Jonathan Kanter said in a statement.

    Apple is the second tech giant the DOJ has taken on in recent years after filing two separate antitrust suits against Google over the past two administrations.

    It’s instituted new rules through the Digital Markets Act to place a check on the power of gatekeepers of large platforms, several of which are operated by Apple.


    The original article contains 691 words, the summary contains 182 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!