Dave Ramsey is a hack.
broken clock tho
That’s…the point of the saying.
Yeah but what if the clock is broken so it’s like 15 minutes off all the time? Then it’s never right. The right twice a day is just big idiom propaganda
If it’s always off by 15 minutes, it’s not broken, it’s misconfigured.
And if it can’t be fixed?
Damn, that’s a critical error. Good catch.
Time is continuous, not discrete
Well most clocks are not continuous though.
All you need to know about Dave Ramsey: i worked on his Jaguar XK.
Is that a particularly expensive jaguar? When I was car shopping I saw some jags for 20k or less so owning a Jag means absolutely nothing when it comes to wealth.
The trick is that it costs an absolute fortune to maintain them, that’s why they’re cheap used. I believe there Is a saying that goes something like “the only car more expensive than a luxury car is a used luxury car”
He’s right for most people first beginning to improve their financial health. He has probably gotten more people out of debt than any other ‘guru’. If that’s a hack, so be it, it works.
He once fired a pregnant employee because she wasn’t married and therefore must have had premarital sex. They’ve fired 9 people for pre marital sex. Wacky
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Is he the idiot who demands you only pay for things in cash and store it in labeled envelopes?
Doesn’t that 1950s(?idk) advice kinda work for some people?
“Demands” though that’s odd
Nah he’s alright. There is no nuance in his advice but for the majority of his listeners that’s probably a good thing.
Yeah he has some shit personally takes and I hate the way he runs his company. He does give pretty decent financial advice though
I can give better advice in a similarly easy to consume manner, applicable to most.
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Invest in a low cost target date fund. Look at Vanguard target date funds for examples and pick a year close to your expected retirement date.
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Pay your highest interest debt before lower.
Both of these pieces of advice make you more money than doing what Ramsay says and are equally easy to understand.
Yes, but do people do it? No.
Do people actually do what Ramsey suggests, even if it isn’t mathematically perfect? Yes.
You’re under estimating the human factor.
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Dave Ramsey has excellent financial advice for a certain type of person. I bet 90% of people reading this need Dave Ramsey style advice.
In this land of legalised extortion in the form of insurance my friend who is in his mid 30s and been driving over a decade with no claims has to pay £700 per month.
My mum wanted to add my sister (again mid thirties and driving for nearly 20 years now with no claims) to her policy so she could borrow her car for a week and then maybe use the car once a month if that and they wanted an additional £1000 a month for the privaledge.
Fucking scum.
Now if there were a /c/fuckinsurance - I’d be all over that. I love my cars, I HATE insurance companies.
I love that I only have liability at $100k but my cost still goes up every year. My coverage is actually worth less to inflation and those crooks want more money? For what?
Go with a different company.
Per month?! Wtf are you driving? (Late 40s here, paying around £400 per year for my electric mini insurance)
My bad, i wrote per month but i meant per year, that was my mistake. He is driving a 1.4 turbo new shape VW Scirocco (sp). My mothers car is a 1.3 Citroen C3 so hardly expensive, luxury or even quick cars. Even £400 is disgustingly over priced in my opinion though, the way this country does insurance is vile.
Australia’s system of buying registration which then covers your basic insurance (third party cover) which is like a tax and insurance cost combined for the car is much more logical, then if you want to you can buy additional fully comp cover for the car none of this insuring per driver per car bullshit.
Car insurance is expensive because cars are both risky and highly destructive. Hence, making a market for them involves high prices.
Regardless of what you think of insurance companies, there’s just no way around this - you could nationalize car insurance and it would still either be really expensive, either on the policy level or else born by taxes.
Certainly not. I just put in some data in an insurance broker thingy and I would be able to get insurance for approx. 120€/month with partially comprehensive coverage (including obligatory liability insurance). These outrageous prices are definitely a US thing.
The U.S is different in that car insurance has to cover medical expenses for others when you are at fault, combined with the risk of driving quite frankly being higher in the U.S. With medical costs being extremely high in the U.S, prices follow that fact.
I’m not trying to argue against the fact that they are both risky and highly destructive, it is definitely necessary. My issue is more with the way that it works in the UK. I think the system in somewhere like Australia is a lot fairer and isnt inherently designed to bleed people of the maximum amount of money like it is in the UK.
Stop throating the boot of exploitive companies.
They’re not, they’re complaining about the problems inherent to cars.
Which is ignoring the problems inherant to auto insurance, which is fundamentally a greater force in the price/cost of car insurance than the danger of cars.
Yes, cars can be dangerous, but that’s not why car insurance is expensive, it’s expensive because car insurance companies have a completely captive market in the US- one that must pay whatever the insurance comapny dictates.
As a result, they set the price as high as they can get away with, and then refuse to actually pay it out anyway.
Don’t make excuses for the insurance companies. The risk is the whole point, and certainly does not excuse their gouging.
You’ll notice other countries do not, in fact, have to deal with this level of price gouging, which implies it’s nothing to do with the cars themselves- it’s just the insurance companies, and it always has been.
The risk is the whole point, and certainly does not excuse their gouging.
The risk is the point though. High risk activities will cost more to insure because they’ll need to be paid out more often. Couple that with the high destruction possible, and you have frequent accidents that can all cause very expensive damage, necessitating a high base price for insurance.
The price gouging is just capitalism, and I doubt anyone here is going to argue that capitalism isn’t bad.
yeah of fucking course. you guys are forced to buy insurance in the US, they have a big juicy captive market.
There’s tons of car insurance companies. We can shop around. Most people don’t, for some reason.
Insurance market is just another oligopoly… As with anything else they collude to fix prices. Sure you can lower rate of price gouging by switching every year but at the end of the day theybare still price gouging and there is nothing end user can do about it.
Parasites like warren buffet with geico bullshit…
You can shop around for insurance, you don’t have to just take what they give you.
Assuming you begin investing at the age of 20 and invest $554 per month for 45 years at a 6% growth rate, you would yield 1.4 million. Definitely not MILLIONS.
6% is very conservative though. Even at 7%, which is a widely accepted inflation adjusted number, it’s over 2 mil.
The other thing is that the monthly investment amount should increase when income does, which at minimum should match inflation.
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And then you add the inflation and you actually just owe money. Got to get that third job at 65
Inflation historically has been 1 to 4 %.
What commonly goes unsaid in these conversations of insurance cost is the immediate disputes that occur with the provider.
Why am I paying tens of thousands a year to engage in an argument when making a claim?
I was once rear ended at a red light. I was knocked unconscious and the driver drove off. A few kind witnesses called police who took a report. They got half his plate imprinted on my bumper, but never tracked him down. I had State Farm, and I was even paying extra for the “uninsured driver coverage”. They said they couldn’t cover it because until they had another driver’s information I was automatically at fault, even with the police report and witness accounts. They said it didn’t count as uninsured driver because it’s possible the guy had insurance. I was flabbergasted.
In the end I had a concussion and needed to take time off work for recovery and my short term disability insurance ended up suing State Farm because they didn’t want to pay for my medical treatment. State Farm agreed to cover medical care but only if it was recorded as my fault and I paid my deductible. In anger I tried to switch insurance companies but found out they have a shared database and since it was recorded as a hit and run my fault, nobody else would take me. And State Farm jacked my rate up 30%…
I realised in a similar, though less detrimental, encounter that true insurance comes in the form of dash cameras. For the equivalent of an insurance payment or two, a high fidelity video of the entire vehicle surroundings can be had.
Honestly though, with a few witnesses and half a plate, it’s a surprise they couldn’t find the car that drove into you. Decerning the colour, and style of car, surely it’d be only a handful of vehicles matching both the description and the numbers.
I’m sorry that happened to you.
That would require a cop to do more than the bate minimum, so its just not gonna happen.
Do you have any recommendations for dash camera solutions like you mention? I’ve been telling myself I need to get a dash cam but every time I start researching what to buy I feel like the market is a sea of wanky information and it’s hard to tell what is crap and what is solid.
I have Viofo 129 Pros. Looks like they now have a 229 Pro in various bundles.
At the time, I looked into various brands and models and was consistently finding so many models were the same device with a different brand on them. That was a huge turn off because it means no firmware updates, support, or a real company behind the product.
Here’s what I was looking for and think is good to be mindful of:
No large display screen
I didn’t want something with a huge display screen, because I don’t want my view to be obstructed by stuff on the windscreen.
No built in secondary camera
A secondary, driver facing camera built in. To achieve a second camera, in my opinion, the main exterior facing camera quality must be compromised to maintain overall price parity with single camera competitors.
Also, on the topic of insurance, there’s absolutely nothing an insurance company would see on the driver facing video that would be to your benefit. They’ll claim you didn’t look down at the speedometer once the entire drive before your accident and therefore they believe you to have been speeding. This also applies to law enforcement in my opinion. Everything you say / provide can and will be used against you.
Additive secondary camera
A number of models, Viofo included, have a input port on them to allow a second camera to be used to combine footage. Think of any video you’ve seen where the front facing footage has a smaller rear facing video in the corner. These aren’t bad, but I noticed that most of the rear facing cameras are lower resolution than the main camera. To me, this doesn’t make a lot of sense as there’s the same likelihood of an incident behind me as in front of me. This might not be an issue anymore, given its been five or so years since I bought mine, the new models might be 4k 60fps all the way around.
A minor detail is also that with additive cameras, a portion of the front view is obstructed in the recording by the rear view. Maybe this is circumventable, and they save as multiple files independently, I don’t know. The resolution thing bothered me more.
Personally, I don’t have rear specific cameras. All of mine are the 129 Pro model, each set to the same video settings. I’m kind of particular and wanted full 360° coverage, so each of our vehicles have four cameras, front, rear, and both sides. Obviously not exactly economical to start out, but one of the side cameras already paid for the entire camera set up in a sense as it captured someone breaking into a neighbour’s house and lead to arrests and prosecution. I call that a win.
Tactile buttons only
Capacitive buttons are garbage and should be outlawed in vehicles as you can’t feel for them. More specifically though, a dedicated toggle button for microphone recording. I like to have mine on in the event I need to read a license plate, or I am in an accident significant enough where recording a final message to family would be important.
That said, I do regularly turn the mic off when there are private conversations taking place, and this is important enough to me I feel it’s worth mentioning.
Night performance
The hard truth is that night vision is these cameras is never going to be great as the sensors are pretty small and they tend to adjust to your headlights anyway, but the Viofo cameras I’ve had have all been able to read a plate when illuminated. I wouldn’t count on it though, also read aloud the plate so the mic picks it up.
Parking modes
Most cameras have some for of parking mode, where they activate when it senses the vehicle get bumped. They do this with a g force sensor.
Not all, but some cameras, including Viofo, also have motion sensing abilities, so they will record a set length (5 or 10 minutes) after they see something move. These tend to have sensitivity options which is great if you live in a windy area with trees, because then it’ll basically be on all night.
There’s also just a time lapse option for when the vehicle is off, and the camera will just take a low frame rate video - as in 10 frames per minute - and kick up the frame rate if it sees something or experiences movement. In my mind this is the best of both worlds, so this is what mine are set to.
GPS
Some reviews I came across way back when were finding some cameras had GPS data displayed on the video with no option to turn it off. This data included the current speed of the vehicle. This circles back to giving the insurer or authority data that can incriminate you. You were going 55 in a 50 and so it’s your fault an inebriated driver went through a red light and slammed into you. No thanks.
That said, I do have the GPS coordinates displayed on mine. In the event the vehicle is stolen and found ditched somewhere, there’s a slim possibility the coordinates could come in handy. Unlike the speed display, the insurer would have to calculate travel speed based off changing coordinates which would be changing at a non standard rate. I find this an acceptable hurdle that an insurer would not traverse.
Capacitor, no battery
No nuance here, batteries tend to swell in the heat experienced by vehicles in the summer sun. Instead, having a capacitor solves this issue.
Memory card
Get the fastest and highest capacity SD card the camera you get will accept. No sense spending money on a good camera if the card fails you. This is a guide to understanding various SD card related terms. It has a good comparison table partway down.
Adhesive mounting, no suction cups
I prefer a bracket with adhesive that the camera clips into instead of a suction cup. I’ve had suction cups let go in both heat and cold. It’s difficult to achieve the same angle once it’s fallen off. Also, this happening while driving can be startling.
Versatility
Bit of a unique situation to my use case, but I often remove a couple cameras to attach to my bike when going on a ride with a lot of road riding, or sometimes with my family. I have mounts on my bikes I just clip them into and I slip a USB power pack in a pouch with a cable running to the cameras. Basically this let’s me not have dedicated bike cameras.
Insurance on your insurance
As I mentioned before, the camera can be considered your insurance policy. Something I recommend to anyone that asks about dash cameras is to consider guarding your possession of the camera a tertiary insurance policy.
If you are ever involved in an accident, don’t say a thing to anyone about the video evidence. Best case scenario, it throws a would be liar a curveball and they admit whatever fault is theirs. In my opinion, it’s not worth bringing up because of the risk that someone is desperate enough, they might try to commandeer the camera from your vehicle. This also helps trap someone in a lie should they go that route.
Final paranoia
I addition to your primary insurance (policy), your secondary insurance (the camera), and your tertiary insurance (not volunteering the footage), I also practice a fourth level of insanity - I mean insurance - whereby I keep extra SD cards in the vehicle so following an accident, I can quickly replace the cards with the accident footage on them with empty cards to record the aftermath.
This way if anyone sees the camera in the windscreen and removes the card or even the entire camera, I’m still covered. These extra cards aren’t huge capacity, maybe enough for an hour of footage.
I didn’t realise I had quite so much to say on this topic. Hopefully the insane parts were outweighed by the useful parts haha.
Commenting here so i can check replies, as i also need recommendations.
State Farm also screwed over a guy I know. He dumped their policy after they wouldn’t pay anything on his accident (much less dramatic than yours) where they had some kind of parking related crash with 2 of their cars at home. State Farm told him that he could not be covered for an accident with another car on his policy because he “can’t sue himself” so it sounds like they are only paying out when they have someone to sue about it.
You are not kidding!
I got a motorcycle and paid for insurance. When someone stole my bike and police caught the guy and put it in the impound, my scummy ass insurance called me to go see if it’s okay? Like bro, that’s your job.
Then they said if I was willing to sign a contract that the bike was fine without allowing me to see it. I said no.
Finally they gave up and wrote me a check for the cost of the bike.
Goes to show how strange modern life is that it was easier for them to cut a cheque than send someone down there. Happens all the time unfortunately. I wonder if someone at the impound lot rode it home.
Not a motorcycle, but my car was hit (along with several others) by a guy evading the police. I wasn’t even in it, we were in a city and cars were parked along the street, and he came over a hill, ran a red light, t-boned someone, and then bounced against a bunch of cars down the street.
When I got the police report, I filed a claim with my insurance, which was the same insurance company as the criminal. They originally told me that, “There were 7 vehicles involved in this accident, and other vehicles were damaged much worse than yours, so we’re not sure if his policy will cover all of the damage… So we’ll have to file the claim under your policy, you’d just have to pay your deductible.”
Absolutely not, I told her. “Well Sir, you have to unders-”
“No, ma’am, YOU need to understand that your customer’s inability to be a responsible citizen is NOT my problem, and I am NOT having my premiums go up, or paying my deductible, when I did absolutely nothing wrong.” After escalating to a manager and giving her an earful while threatening to drop my policy with them effective immediately, they miraculously realized his policy would cover the damage to my car. Easy day, right?
Now, I’ll be honest: The damage to my car was completely cosmetic, but I was poor and could have really used some extra cash, hence why I was pursuing it. Well, brought the car in to be looked over by the insurance folks, and the assessed damage was like $800. Cool, I asked her for my check so I could go home.
“Oh, well, Sir, you still have a lien on the vehicle, and normally we would send it to your bank, and they would tell you where to go and then pay the repair shop.”
Oh, cool, well, that’s not what we’re doing, I already have a shop lined up, I said, but needed the money for the parts.
Big tall dude comes over, also an insurance employee, as the woman and I are going back and forth, and he chimes in and goes, “Well, Sir, y’know, typically the bank holding the lien wants to handle these things, and, y’know, if the repairs aren’t made and they repossess the vehicle, you could owe the repair costs.”
My response: “Huh, fascinating. Sounds like a conversation between my bank and I, and with all due respect, I don’t understand who you are to have that discussion on their behalf.”
“Just cut him the check,” as he walks away.
I fucking hate insurance companies.
I had a shitty white Kia Rio that I wrote off in a snowstorm. I borrowed my dad’s car to drive while I looked for a replacement I could afford, and after a few weeks my insurance said ‘we paid you the coverage. If you don’t put a new car on your policy, we’ll cancel it.’ ok, fine. I put my old junker (car before the Rio) on it - wasn’t even road worthy, but I had accident forgiveness on this policy and if I had to start over I’d get higher premiums.
I found a car a week later. Called the broker to switch the policy.
'we can’t remove this car from the policy unless we contact your bank first ’
What.
They claimed because I had bought my Rio with a bank loan that they couldn’t remove my junker without permission from the bank.
I argued with this person politely for 10 minutes, pointing out that I’d paid the car off 2 years prior. They said ‘well I’ll need to check with the underwriter then.’ fine. I get a call back 30m later, same person. ‘no, we need permission from the bank according to the underwriter.’
This pissed me off because I knew I was being lied to. “Now I know you’re lying to me. I have the cheque from the underwriter cashed in my account. They would not have issued it to me if there was any issue with the bank. I am not a customer of that bank, have not been for 2 years.”
‘well sir, I need to confirm that with the bank’
“If you contact the bank in reference to me in any way, shape, or form, I will sue you for breach of privacy and file complaints with every government office that I can. DO NOT CALL THE BANK. SWITCH IN THE NEW CAR.”
They refused. I called back 2 hours later, got someone else. Told them I needed the new car switched in.
They did it, and a week later I filed a written complaint to the broker about the other rep, firmly underscoring the lying.
No idea if it was related or not, but the branch got downsized away less than a year later.
Anyway, fuck insurance companies.
here’s me, a grown ass adult with a car i paid off like 4 years ago - nothing special, a smallish commuter POS that gets 40mpg that i literally use to drive 4 miles to work and back.
i was paying about $630/year because i pay for a year at a time, and it’d be almost double that to pay monthly, like what the actual fuck? anyways, a few months ago i get this email from the insurance company telling me “hey get ready your policy will renew in 3 months, be sure to double check your payment method” so i log into my account and they were gonna raise my premium to $970/yr and there was literally no obvious way to see that they were gonna do that. it was a case of logging in, going through multiple levels of menus to get to the future policy, download a pdf of that policy, then view it offline.
well, i’m pissed, so i call them to find out what the hell they’re doing and why and they claimed it’s because i had gotten a speeding ticket. of course, they had zero information to share with me about that speeding ticket - no ticket number, no date/time, no address, nothing. i sure as hell don’t recall getting a speeding ticket, and in any case, with a spotless driving record, you’d think there’d be some kind of interfacing with me about it, but no. they claimed the ticket was real and i’d need to contact my DMV to find out more.
so i call them, the DMV, and after some hassle, find out they have ZERO record of any speeding ticket. so… back on the phone with the insurance company and they just wanna give me the shaft and the runaround no exceptions. i mean, i’m pissed now because it’s OBVIOUS fraud, right? Anyways, i get absolutely nowhere. so i tell them to cancel my policy and i woulda thought about contacting a lawyer about a possible case or something but, naw…
i still have the car, and it’s parked being unused. I swapped to riding bikes to and from work, sometimes an ebike, sometimes a fixie, and i’m the only cyclist on the road around here that I’ve ever seen and it’s sometimes really sketchy. but i plan to ride through the winter, dry or snowy, i don’t care.
it can get complicated, because i’m a single father, but honestly, fuck auto insurance, fuck cars, fuck car brain. we gotta make a stand at some point and I lament that we can’t really do it collectively.
I’m with you there.
Not too long ago, my company was informed by letter (as you should have been) of a price increase. I can’t remember exactly, but I want to say it was a 600% increase on the company’s rates. There’s never been any claims on the policy, they just decided they could do it to enough of their clients, and probably enough would pay it that it wouldn’t matter they’d lose a bunch.
I understand the provide we switched to actually provides greater coverage for less than the original amount we paid the first provider. Unbelievable.
It wasn’t specifically for insurance reasons, but I got rid of my car after I noticed I wasn’t driving very far. Now we have a couple cargo trailers and we do the shopping and the errands just as easily and we’re saving tens of thousands doing it. We go through the winter as well, it’s not for everyone but dress appropriately and have lights and you’ll do great.
My job is shopping around for third party customer support vendors. One of their pitches I kept hearing was, “We don’t lie to you about times.”
And then they shared how their competitors were trained on a method of customer service where their goal was to get you to hang up as fast as possible to increase their velocity Metrics. So they would literally lie to you. Thinking it was a joke, I googled and yeah, apparently that was a REAL tactic done for decades.
I’ve had great luck going through an insurance broker for my insurance. The broker can be a mediator should the insurance company engage in sketchy nonsense, and can get you into some cushy insurance companies than only do B2B and don’t spend millions on consumer advertising. Plus brokers will know what insurance companies to go through for what buyers to likely get you the best rate
sure, maybe. but FUCK Dave Ramsey.
I’m out of the loop. What’d they do?
He plays a daddy capitalist on teevee while being total boomer.
Also his debt pay off advice is bad financial advice. “Snow ball” method 🤡
Entire grift is dunking on peasants and blame their personal failings for systemic issues.
Some of his advice (mainly the first “baby steps” of paying off debts and getting some money saved) is reasonable enough. Snowball method of paying off debt may not be the most mathematically advantageous, but it does give psychological quick wins to those who may need it most. Paying off high-interest loans first doesn’t mean much if you get frustrated and give up. Setting a budget is also important.
Once you get past that his advice is pretty awful though. Yes, I use credit cards but I pay it off. Yes, I have a car loan but its interest rate is so low I pay a rounding error’s worth of interest through the life of the loan. No, I’m not paying my mortgage off on a 15-year schedule because its interest rate is plenty low as well and I’ve got better things to do with my paycheck.
Snow ball method’s great when you’re really up shit’s creek and aren’t going to be done paying everything off anytime soon anyway.
By paying off the smaller loans first, your total minimum monthly payment is reduced quicker, leaving you better off psychologically because you finally have money to spend on food, but also you can then use the extra money every month to pay off the debts with worse interest rates.
Personally I wouldn’t fully adhere his snowball method OR the optimal “high interest first” strategy. I’d first identify the low hanging fruit and then look at the rest as a tradeoff between “how quickly could I pay this off” vs “how much would not having this payment anymore improve my life” vs “how much is this going to fuck me in the ass with interest if I don’t pay it off ahead of schedule”.
Dave Ramsey is an out of touch asshole though.
Normies love larping his boomer takes tho haha
some people care DEEPLY about what kind of car everyone drives. that’s literally why overpriced cars even exist
i prefer a well maintained shitbox 😎
As a bike rider, doesn’t that skew even more the relative advantage you get by not giving a fuck? If nobody wants a “weak” car, they should be even cheaper than in a sane market that values cars by their ability to go fast and accurately from A to B, no?
No, because they pay out the nose for huge SUVs these days which increases the chance they’ll kill us cyclists.
No I meant coming from ignorance, since I am a biker, but on the matter of buying “ugly” cars.
Eh, it also means relatively fewer weak cars are being built. So it helps, but not as much as you’d think.
I think more-so, some people think everyone else gives a shit about what they drive.
If you drive a Nissan, I’m not going anywhere near you on the road.
Works both ways too, Sam Bankman Fried apparently fooled a lot of people by cosplaying as a Toyota Corolla driver
Memes circulating with this dude right now, even if positioning him as a chud, are a way to launder this dude as just a legit money guy. Sure, he has some basic, broad financial advice you can consider if you can see through all the Jesus and have no other options, but more than anything else, he’s a vile human being.
Eat religious shit dave ramsey.
Dave Ramsey hasn’t tried to buy a reliable used car in the last decade, at least. You aren’t going to find anything under about $10k that’s actually reliable where I am. A mid-90s Toyota with 300,000 miles maybe, but not anything under 150,000.
With the $554 average new car payment in the original post, you can afford that $10k new-to-you used car outright in cash every 18 months.
Average price of a used car in the US, right now, is $29,000. Which means that for a $554 payment, it’s going to be 5.4 years rather than 1.5. From there, you need to figure out how many miles you put on a car in a year, make some rough guesses about how many miles the average car has left before the cost to repair exceeds the cost of replacing, etc. Obvs. a high mileage used car is going to require significantly more maintenance than a new car will (…in most cases, as long as you aren’t buying a new Land Rover or Jaguar), so you’ll need to figure that in as well. You’ll probably want good insurance, even if you’re only required to carry minimal liability insurance, because any accident could be catastrophic for your finances if you can’t afford to repair your car.
It’s a bit of a death spiral; wages are still too low, car prices are too high.
Sure, but in 2023, someone could already be selling a 2022 as used. That $29k number is going to be skewed by those who sell younger cars. You can still find used cars much cheaper than this.
For that $554 payment, you would need $6648 in additional yearly maintenance costs on an older vehicle to compare. That’s like a new engine or transmission, every year!
Anecdotally, I drive a 32-year-old car that I purchased, coincidentally, for $3200 around 7 years ago. I haven’t spent even close to $6648 in maintenance that entire time (probably not even another $3200).
To my original claim - finding something that’s reasonable mileage, and in good mechanical condition, for under $10k, is quite a challenge at this point. I sold a 2008 Honda Civic Si with >200,000 miles last year that was not running, had rust, and generally needed a fair amount of work, and had an asking price of $4k. I got fifty offers in under 12 hours. It was crazy.
I walk or bike to about 90% of the places I need to go. That said, I also recently bought a vehicle for $1200. Works fine except the fuel gauge is broke so I have to just keep it topped off. My neighbor is trying to sell his Kia Rio for $1500. Works fine. It’ll last at least another 3 or 4 years. Likely more. I have a friend whose son totaled out his car. He wanted another. I recommended a car that was in the $1000 to $2000 price range. He didn’t want it. He took out a loan and got a very nice, very sporty car. Then he got in another wreck and totaled it out too. So then he goes and gets himself another expensive car. I just don’t understand.
If I took my bike to town, it would take me about an hour, give or take. To get home would be about four hours. It’s 15 miles, one way, with about 2200’ of elevation change.
Sounds like you need a zip line! 😂
That’s just one of the many fun things about living in the mountains.
As a pedestrian, I’m glad not to support big bike chain lube, I’m saving dozens of pennies annually
Oh, you’re one of those shills for the shoe-leather industry! 😜
Oh come on, Lemmy. I know I’m on c/fuckcars; but seriously - $600 a month for a new car sounds really good to me, I’m from Eastern Europe.
It’s good because new cars are significantly more reliable, fuel efficient, safe and comfortable than 10+ year old cars. If you drive a lot and can’t afford to pay $15k up front for a decent ~6yo car, then it’s really not that bad. Much better than buying $600 rolling wreckage, I can tell you that much.
Yes people, I know you only use bikes and trains and whatnot. But some people neee cars, and you have to respect that. Or are you gonna tell this mother of 2, living in a village, working from office 20km from home, that she would be better off just sticking to the public transport which visits her place once every 2 hours.
This is for insurance, not the cost of buying the car. Yes some people do need cars because of their situation and the majority of people here can recognise that but to pay so much just for fucking insurance!
Oh, that’s odd, I don’t get it. It says average car payment per month, I thought it means it’s the monthly loan payment, which is super fine.
$550 is about what I pay ANNUALLY for AC for my 2015 Mondeo.
But yeah, it would be close to $3000 annually if I wanted to lease any new vehicle.
Ah OK, I see what you mean. I thought you were referencing the title of the post as it mentions that his neighbour is paying x amount per month for insurance but you are right the image accompanying the post does say average car payment which would referring to paying for the actual car.
We were both concentrating on different parts of the post! You were right if referring to the image text, sorry.
This is what I love about Lemmy. People being able to realise they made a mistake.
If this is just insurance then it is straight up wrong. The national average is like $200/m.
As I said in another reply I wasn’t mistaken and referring to the post title which was talking about insurance where as the image itself was referring to “car repayments”. That was my mistake.
The picture is talking about the purchase price of the car, OP decided to add insurance onto this.
Yes. If you read the full comment tree you’d see I realised he was referring to the image rather than the title. My mistake.
Yes people, I know you only use bikes and trains and whatnot. But some people neee cars, and you have to respect that. Or are you gonna tell this mother of 2, living in a village, working from office 20km from home, that she would be better off just sticking to the public transport which visits her place once every 2 hours.
The point of this movement isn’t to simply ban cars like that will somehow solve all of life’s problems. Some people use bikes and trains not just because they can, but because they have to.
Cars are a symptom of a pattern of development that makes us disconnected, both from each other and from our needs. It isn’t right that you should have to work 20km from home where the only option you have is to spend monthly payments on a car loan, insurance and gas. You should have the option to work from home, or closer to home, or within reach of easily accessible and usable public transit.
I don’t get your comment. You can have a decent car new at 400€/month and I still think that’s ridiculously high.
Used cars make so much more sense when you value rational arguments. (Or bikes, public transportation, feet).
I don’t think you can have a large family wagon for €400, at least in my country (Poland)
Buying a new car is a poor financial decision in general, considering things like depreciation or extreme leasing costs.
So yeah, I agree, buying a used car is the way to go, but getting one also gets much much more difficult the older and cheaper you want it to be.
How much is the Dacia Jogger in Poland? I can see they are under 400€/month here in France.
Millions? I don’t think so. There is no investment that would turn $30K or whatever into millions that was safe enough to work for the majority of people. But it would be a significant help.
That being said, for most people, the amount you’d spend to live in a place where a car isn’t needed or constantly paying for ride share or taxis greatly exceeds the amount you’d save by not having a car for the vast majority of people, and that’s not even getting into the ableism issue.
And sure we could get into buying a cheaper, used car or whatever, but in the long term the maintenance costs, having to buy another car sooner, and other financial risks to cars outside of warrantee over a lifetime will add up similarly unless you’re really lucky or can repair your own cars.
$554 a month at 5% growth is $440k after 30 years. So yeah not millions.
S&P averaged about 10% over the last 30 years. That means it would be over 1.2 million.
Working life is more like 40 years. Those back end years are huge, it goes up to 840k. Which is why you’re supposed to start on your 401k right away. Of course 99% of people don’t get this talk until they’re 40; go through a poverty period after high school; or never make it out of paycheck to paycheck living for other reasons. (Like medical debt)
Very few people get the good pay, good contributions, and consequently the good retirement. We also completely lie to people about retirement. We tell them they have to scrimp and save so they aren’t homeless when they’re 80. In reality half of us will be dead by 75 and half again by 85.
And sure we could get into buying a cheaper, used car or whatever, but in the long term the maintenance costs, having to buy another car sooner, and other financial risks to cars outside of warrantee over a lifetime will add up similarly unless you’re really lucky or can repair your own cars.
Buying a low-mileage used car and even paying for a shop to do the maintenance is almost always cheaper than buying something with $500+ monthly payments. I don’t actually agree for the most part with Dave Ramsey (even about the entirety of this post)…but he’s correct that it is cheaper.
Most Americans have less than $1,000 in savings. So any car for that amount is not going to survive long. So most Americans still get loans for used cars.
And with interest rates so high, a payment of $550 will only get you about $25K. That’s enough for a decent new small sedan, but if you have kids (especially if 3 or more), that’s probably the minimum needed to get a used minivan that will last a while.
Anything else is only going to last a few years at best before needing major repairs.
I just did an autotrader search and in my (very unaffordable) area, there were lots of serviceable cars under 10k. If you live in a place with a garage you can even buy a used EV and eliminate whole categories of maintenance costs.
The whole point is to buy something that requires smaller or no monthly payments, and then bank the savings and eventually buy something better. “A couple of years” can do the trick in some cases.
$10k for a serviceable minivan or other vehicle that would work as a primary car for parents? What about the problem that most households need two incomes and very few can commute together due to different schedules and locations and adding even an extra hour or two of daycare in order to share a car is often as much as a second car payment.
As I said, $25k is probably plenty for a small sedan for a single person who only uses it for commuting and grocery shopping, but not likely for people with multiple children that a small sedan or coupe would not work, households with multiple income earners, households with teenagers who also need a car to work, or all the other scenarios where a single, small, used sedan that’s just good enough for a short daily commute is reasonable.
$550 in car payments for a houshold is not unreasonable for the vast majority of households and usually doesn’t equate to frivolous spending.
$550 in car payments for a houshold is not unreasonable for the vast majority of households and usually doesn’t equate to frivolous spending.
I don’t think I necessarily disagree with this but the reality is that when you buy new you’re always paying more. When you buy new on credit, you’re paying even more than that.
So, like I said in the beginning, I don’t 100% agree with this dude about even this whole post. But it is cheaper to buy used and even pay for the maintenance. It’s a point almost not worth making because of how obviously correct it is.
and that’s not even getting into the ableism issue.
Infrastructure that requires people to drive is far more ableist than the inverse. As many people with a disability can’t drive at all (or driving is a significant challenge).
Right. That was what I was saying.
I didn’t get into that issue, but it’s a major one, and not just for people confined to a wheelchair who might be able to get assistance through government sponsored programs, but also people with certain types of PTSD, Autism, ADHD, anxiety issues, etc., (including lots of veterans) or people with vision issues or other disabilities that aren’t considered “enough” of a disability to get help, but make it difficult or impossible to drive.
The whole, where do you live thing is super important. The last time we moved my wife and I were very adamant about a specific maximum commute length in car, or a length by transit. And getting somewhere to live that was easy to commute from. We compared the price including mass transit commute at the max distance to anything we were getting closer with the commute included from there too.
The differences were absolutely significant. Many places were cheaper to live an hour away, even with car payments, insurance, and gas. That’s absolutely ridiculous and part of so many problems from climate change to motor vehicle deaths.
We need to enforce mixed development, the people who work in an area need to be able to afford living in that area. Pushing the workers out should not be acceptable.
the people who work in an area need to be able to afford living in that area.
I read an article in my local paper that 95% of the workers in my town don’t live in town. And while there are new apartment buildings going up, paying $2000/mo for 300 sq ft without a washer/dryer or even an oven is not going to be attracting much of that 95% back.
Unless we get serious about building, that’s all that’s going to be available. Developers love the idea of cubicle sized housing.
That being said, for most people, the amount you’d spend to live in a place where a car isn’t needed or constantly paying for ride share or taxis greatly exceeds the amount you’d save by not having a car for the vast majority of people, and that’s not even getting into the ableism issue.
I disagree with everything else you say, as the other replies to you point out. But this is a really good point.
A decent 7 year old car with 100k miles on it currently goes for about $15k. Everything private sale is a lemon, completely used up with over 200k miles, or 20+ years old. All still asking thousands more than they’re worth.
Every used car I’ve ever owned cost thousands in repairs that were unexpected. Head gaskets, alternators, O2 sensors, intake manifolds, ignition coils, brake calipers, radiators, every fucking time. It’s cheaper to just get a five year loan on a 2 year old car around $20k than to fuck with anything used.
Thats what I just did. Got a former lease, certified pre owned (so some semblance of a warranty) and half the price of new. Things got every option and even self drives on the highway
Same here. Certified pre-owned brings (or at least brought) price down for luxury cars down to about the same as the cheapest barebones brand new car for me. Less than a year till my car is paid off now.
Don’t like needing a car but if I’m going to have one I will damn well be comfortable and not sore from driving to/from work.
A 2 year old car is used. It’s like c/fuckcars just turns peoples brains off when discussing vehicles.
I think context gives away the intent of the message. My previous 20-year-old car cost $6,000 in repairs and the check engine light was still on. My 2022 car just works.
You can just admit you used the wrong word to express your point.
That’s really close to a Camry hybrid too, then you get a warranty plus residual value is going to be very high.
This was the best thing about living in New York. No need for a car. No expenses paid in car payments, gas, or insurance. People claim that New York City is expensive, and rents are certainly higher than most places, but you end up saving so much money just on the cost of owning a car alone. Overall, the cost of living for me was much cheaper in New York City than it is now in Orlando.
I wish I had the resources to go back.
I live in a major city with decent (not excellent, just decent) transportation.
Yokels from small towns talk about how “expensive” it is until I ask them how much they pay for rent and food. And it always surprises them theyre paying the same damn amount thanks to inflation.
Eh… Used to live in the city in a 500 sq ft condo built in '75 and similar units would be rented for the same price I’m paying to rent a 900sq ft apartment built in 2014 in a small town with all services one could need… Bonus, I don’t need my car to do the groceries because it’s 2 minutes door to door from where I live now compared to 5 minutes in my car when I was at the condo.
That’s really exorbitant insurance. I don’t know where he lives or what is situation is but $350 a month is insane.
You can buy a very nice e-bike every year with that money.
I’d put money on a pretty messy driving history for the insurance to be that much.
Two cars (~$50k each), two adult drivers, one accident in the last 7 years, no tickets = $453/mo. Fuck California and the weak cunt Newsom that can’t get these greedy fuckers under control.
I was unemployed for most of last year and let my insurance lapse. I’d be lucky if anyone would insure me for $350/month.
Wouldn’t surprise me if that neighbour has been in a few accidents, gotten a bunch of speeding tickets, and/or is a young male.
Also depends on what they are driving.
