What’s funny about this is you’re going a long way to imply the father was a fascist/Nazi, when growing up in Alabama in the 50’s is all that’s needed to turn a child into a racist, fascist piece of shit.
Heritage foundation isn’t a Nazi respawn. It’s the American born and bred fascists who have been in America all along. Either way it doesn’t matter. They’re fascists through and through, no different to the nazi’s.
growing up in Alabama in the 50’s is all that’s needed to turn a child into a racist, fascist piece of shit
Alabama was the birthplace of the modern Civil Rights Movement, from Montgomery to Birmingham to Selma. A little unfair to assert it was a state that just makes people racist. The neo-confederates of the post-Depression Era had to work pretty hard to keep cramming Jim Crow down people’s throats decade after decade.
That said, Huntsville Alabama circa 1950 was most notable for Redstone Arsenal, home to the Marshall Space Flight Center. The center was founded through Operation Paperclip, a project to export German rocket scientists to the United States and pump them for their expertise in the field.
A guy with a Nazi mother and White-Russian father who emigrated to a city built around the famous rocketry lab was almost certainly influenced by the German brand of fascist ideology.
That said, the Germans got their strain of fascism from Fordist antisemitism pumped into the country after WW1. So if you’re going to pick a state to blame for The Heritage Foundation’s brand of white nationalist hate, you’d be better off pointing the finger at Michigan.
Alabama was the birthplace of the modern Civil Rights Movement, from Montgomery to Birmingham to Selma.
I mean, isn’t that because the core of the movement was persecuted black Southerners? Alabama having enough of thise guys to kickstart the movement feels like more of an indictment than praise.
It’s like saying the birthplace of antifascism was Fascist Germany or Italy… Like, yeah… It be like it do, because of how it did?
It’s like saying the birthplace of antifascism was Fascist Germany or Italy…
Post-WW1 Italy had one of the largest and most active Communist Parties in Europe. I don’t think it is reasonable to say “Italians are just fascist because of where they grew up” when you’ve got an enormous contrary datapoint. Neither is it reasonable to say Alabama produces racists ex nihilo. In the case of Redstone Arsenal, the federal government effective created a Fascist Reservation System and cultivated European extremist refugees like it was some kind of political petri dish.
I mean, isn’t that because the core of the movement was persecuted black Southerners?
You could find persecuted black workers from California to New York to Florida in 1963. Alabama wasn’t notable in that regard.
The movement that the nascent 50s civil rights movement tapped into in Alabama was a large socio-economic network of majority-minority townships, allied churches, and civic organizations that the white nationalist state was already struggling to control. Much like with Rosewood, Florida and Tulsa, Oklahoma, the problem in Alabama was that too many black residents were doing too well.
The response to the 60s Civil Rights Movement along the Gulf Coast was to demolish a lot of that black wealth, export jobs overseas, and lynch a lot of those young black leaders.
Exactly my thought when I read that.
A guy with a Nazi mother and White-Russian father who emigrated to a city built around the famous rocketry lab was almost certainly influenced by the German brand of fascist ideology.
You linked a source saying his mother was German, not that she was a Nazi. His father also did not move straight to Huntsville in 1951 according to this post, he retired there over a decade later after having worked in
FloridaJacksonville (thanks to derfunkatron for the correction).You linked a source saying his mother was German, not that she was a Nazi.
I linked a source saying she was a German refugee from 1945 who emigrated to a township staffed full of Nazi emigres. Also, his father was White Russia - 100% a fascist.
They did not move straight to Huntsville.
It’s also absolutely ridiculous to call all White emigres Nazis. Was Alexander Kerensky a Nazi?
It’s also absolutely ridiculous to call all White emigres Nazis.
I see what you mean (though “explicitly” needs a citation) but not all so-called white emigres were members of the White Movement; “white emigre” is a misnomer. For example Trotsky could theoretically be called a white emigre, and less tenuously anyone fleeing the civil war would count.
To quote the wiki page you linked:
The White Armies comprised a number of different groups, who operated independently and did not share a single ideology or political goal.
Now read the rest.
Man, they still racist as fuck there.
Or the zionists
Ok… not sure why you’re trying to defend a neo Nazi or his old school Nazi dad, but sure.
I don’t think they were defending him; I think they were saying you don’t need German credentials to be a proper, full-blooded Nazi. Just being American is enough.
Uhm… ok just seems like it’s kind of deflecting from the point that this dude’s dad probably got off the hook for commiting crimes against humanity and was allowed to start over fresh without ever facing justice for the atrocities he directly committed.
I know as an American in many ways, I arguably hold some responsibility for benefiting from an unjust system. Still seems like a distraction in a post trying to call attention to the fact that a man literally trying to overthrow the American government was probably raised by a war criminal, and nobody has ever noticed this or brought it to the public’s attention.
So like the openly racist son of a Nazi war criminal who escaped justice is equivalent to any other American such as myself? Interesting, I would like to imagine I’m not quite as bad for being part of an exploited working class in an unjust system this guy is actively controlling, but I guess if you see it that way, not much I could say to change your mind.
You don’t have to be German to be a Nazi, there are American Nazis.
Are you calling me a Nazi?!?
Jesus you people…
What’s funny about this is you’re going a long way to imply the father was a fascist/Nazi, when growing up in Alabama in the 50’s is all that’s needed to turn a child into a racist, fascist piece of shit.
You don’t have to be German to be a Nazi, there are American Nazis. Just being American is enough
I’m trying to say this is dumb without just coming out and saying this is fucking dumb
You don’t have to be German to be a Nazi, there are American Nazis..Jesus you people…
Why bother with acknowledging reality when we can paraphrase and keep distracting from the original point by getting weirdly defensive bc somebody pointed out a fascist’s dad was also a literal WWII Nazi
Also, this is fucking dumb
Yes, this is dumb. I intentionally paraphrased the comments to be shorter and simpler, in the hope you will not misunderstand them. Let’s try and dumb this down even further: Nazism is neither an ethnic nor a heritable trait.
So like the openly racist son of a Nazi war criminal who escaped justice is equivalent to any other American such as myself? Interesting, I would like to imagine I’m not quite as bad for being part of an exploited working class in an unjust system this guy is actively controlling, but I guess if you see it that way, not much I could say to change your mind.
This guy’s racism was probably influenced by his father’s views, but ultimately separate from his father’s potential nazism. What his father did, said, and believed should have no bearing on an evaluation of his morals. He’s an adult now.
When I was in high school, I was a big fan of George W Bush, because my dad was. Fifteenish years later, my politics are vastly different from my father’s, and though there are overlaps (gay rights, legality of drugs, and privacy laws, mostly), it would be misleading for a someone to say that I inherited those from him.
Not sure why most commenters are shitting on you. It is an interesting possibility. The apple not falling far from the tree is an expression for a reason.
Yeah it’s almost kinda weird how defensive people are getting with this.
Because they’re making huge unfounded leaps of logic and then doing things like accusing people of defending Nazis for questioning the logic
I read almost every reply. The general tone of responses are “you can’t prove that so be quiet! Also I’m smarter than you”
That seems like a very uncharitable way to describe people pointing out that OP hasn’t actually presented any evidence and has seemingly misread their own source. I think there needs to be something stronger than “was a Russian emigrant who was unaccounted for after the Axis invaded his home” to call someone a member of the Nazi party
You left out the fact that the son has been actively implementing the Nazi agenda in the US. I think that makes it a bit more plausible.
I left it out because I don’t think that we should use the activities of someone’s child to accuse them of doing a separate wrong thing long before the the child was even born. Every single Nazi ever was the child of someone
Buddy, that is not how ideology works. If a guy is doing nazi things, speculating is fair game. If there are circumstantial things, we’ll talk about it.
Go write angry letters to the National Enquirer if you don’t like this stuff, internet commenters aren’t exactly the biggest fish to fry.
If a guy is doing nazi things
The entire problem here is that there is literally no evidence anywhere of the guy in question doing any Nazi things at all
I’m not saying people can’t speculate. I’m saying I think the conclusions they reached are wrong. That’s equally fine to do on the internet
Read through as well, it does seem like OP is wrong. Can’t assume all anti-Communists are Nazis, and the records that do exist don’t put him in suspicious places for the timeline. I can understand the desire to make connections to explain his son’s views, though.
There’s no need to prove that Spakovsky’s father was a Nazi to explain or hold Spakovsky accountable for his beliefs and actions. Any attempt to do so is a waste of time and a distraction. It also echoes the idea that children inherit the sins of their parents, which I believe is in line with authoritarian thought.
An interesting counter example:
Stephen Miller was born in California, is Jewish, specifically descended from Eastern Europeans who escaped pogroms, the grandchild of immigrants, and the child of democrats one of which was a social worker. Why is he acting so much like a fascist and a key member of an administration that apparently hates California, democracy, social programs, and is hell bent on starting its own anti-immigrant pogroms?
Judge a piece of shit for who they are, not because they come from a long line of pieces of shit.
I totally agree. Only mentioned the connection because that might be the motivation OP had to look into this or make this post.
Regarding Stephen Miller, though, or more broadly any child of people who undergo traumatic events, suffering often begets more suffering. That’s why we have so many quips like “hurt people hurt people”. It may be that his views are a rebellion against his family’s for one reason or another.
Also nothing changes that he’s a piece of shit, but y’know.
At first I thought you were implying the dad was a part of Operation Paperclip. But that would require Nazis to have recruited an ethnic Slav for missile work.
Then I wonder if you’re implying dad might have been a Soviet spy targeting the stuff in Huntsville. And that seems more plausible. Under that scenario it is likely that significant parts or all of the refugee story are real, and that can be fashioned into decent cover.
And then it’s also plausible that there is no meaning, and a refugee settling in Huntsville is mere coincidence.
By the looks of the dates he left Yugoslavia when the Axis attacked, which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do
“Settled in Yugoslavia after WWI” means White Russian, so not really Soviet agent material.
There were plenty of reasons to flee Russia after WWI other than being a member of the White Movement. I mean you had civil war, famine, terror, more terror, etc. Plenty of reasons to fuck off and never look back.
Oh, yeah, Interwar Yugoslavia was full of Russians who weren’t necessarily politically slanted, but took one look at the mess and went “fuck that”. They’re commonly referred to as ‘whites’ because the ‘reds’ are presumed to have stayed in Russia.
I was more saying that jumping from “ethnic Russian” to “Soviet spy” is going the wrong direction. Presumably, someone pro-Soviet would go back when the revolution ended, whereas I can’t help but notice this dude stayed until '41, disappeared just about when the Nazis rolled in, and then reappeared just about when the Soviets were releasing Nazi POWs.
Operation Paperclip
So the idea of apolitical nazi scientists just working on rockets is kinda not true when you look closer, but the real meat is Operation Bloodstone, where nazi officers were brought over snd given immunity to help run anticommunist programs.
I went to Paperclip because of the connection to Huntsville specifically with Redstone and NASA.
Oh, I didn’t know about the Huntsville connection.
An ethnic slav? He was born in Saint Petersburg…
And sure, it could just be a coincidental 9 year gap in his resume starting in 1941 and have nothing to do with him being a Nazi
Why would it be weird for an ethnic Slav to be born in the capital of the Russian empire? And are you suggesting he was a member of the Nazi party while he was teaching in Yugoslavia?
I’m suggesting he was a member of the Nazi party during the 9 years of his resume that are blank.
He was a teacher in Yugoslavia until 1941 and then I guess he took a nearly decade long sabbatical. Then suddenly he was in Germany . Then suddenly Huntsville.
His son wrote an essay after his mom died about how he wasn’t a Nazi, but his son is also a pathological liar who was responsible for preemptively stirring up an insurrection based on false claims he made about 2020 election security…
The country he was teaching in got invaded by the Axis in 1941. Of course he stopped teaching, the literal biggest war in all of history had come to his doorstep. It should not be that surprising for records to become patchy at that point
I agree that we shouldn’t bother with what his son says, that guy is not going to be a useful source here. It just seems like a huge leap to say “the fascists invaded his home and we don’t know what he did, therefore he must have joined them”. Surely if he was that much of a Nazi, he’d have gone to them instead of waiting until they came to him?
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/russia-hitler-white-russian-emigres-and-german-soviet-war
Defeated by the Red Army in the Russian Civil War of 1918–20, the Whites spent the next two decades in exile in Czechoslovakia, France, Germany, and beyond, yearning to liberate Russia from what they saw as the godless rule of Jews and Bolsheviks. When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, many Russians sought to join his forces, blind to the fact that he aimed not to liberate Russia but to subjugate it. The Nazi regime, in turn, regarded these Russians with suspicion and enlisted only a fraction of them, mostly as interpreters and civil engineers. The Whites refused to see their homeland as anything but a victim of communism or to admit that Red Army soldiers were defending their country against Nazi aggression.
https://www.amazon.com/Russian-Roots-Nazism-Socialism-1917-1945/dp/0521070058 This book examines the overlooked topic of the influence of anti-Bolshevik, anti-Semitic Russian exiles on Nazism. White émigrés contributed politically, financially, militarily, and ideologically to National Socialism. This work refutes the notion that Nazism developed as a peculiarly German phenomenon: it arose primarily from the cooperation between völkisch (nationalist/racist) Germans and vengeful White émigrés. From 1920–1923, Adolf Hitler collaborated with a conspiratorial far right German-White émigré organization, Aufbau (Reconstruction). Aufbau allied with Nazis to overthrow the German government and Bolshevik rule through terrorism and military-paramilitary schemes. This organization’s warnings of the monstrous ‘Jewish Bolshevik’ peril helped to inspire Hitler to launch an invasion of the Soviet Union and to initiate the mass murder of European Jews. This book uses extensive archival materials from Germany and Russia, including recently declassified documents, and will prove invaluable reading for anyone interested in the international roots of National Socialism.
Unless this book talks about Shpakovsky specifically - and I assume you’d have mentioned it if it did - this is not proof of anything at all. You cannot take, “a lot of Russians joined up with the Nazis after the October Revolution,” to show that one specific guy was a Nazi; this is the ecological fallacy at best, even if we assume that most white emigres did that. Like, it would be absurd to call Alexander Kerensky a Nazi, and yet your logic here does exactly that.
Sure if you also ignore the fact we can’t seem to account for what he actually did during the war or following the war before he suddenly pops up in this middle of nowhere town where the U.S. happened to be hiding other Nazis.
I would be very curious to read this report though if you can find it for me: Berezino district party committee report on the case of Ia. A. Shpakovskii, 24 May 1946
Bc it does seem that he was at least accused of Nazi collaboration at some point.
He blanked for nine years then very briefly surfaced in Germany before somehow coincidentally ending up in the same middle of nowhere town in the U.S. where the U.S. government hid other Nazis to avoid trial in exchange for expertise they could offer that they didn’t want falling in the hands of the Soviet Union. Mainly to help further develop nuclear weapons and other atomic technology, but in general anything that they felt could give the U.S. and capitalism an advantage over the soviets and communism.
As I replied to you elsewhere, your own post does not say that he moved to Hunstville in 1951. Additonally, being a WWII refugee with useful skills is not an indicator of Naziism.
Well if you’re saying he was in paperclip, paperclip has been mostly declassified. You can look him up in the rolls here. Not a lot of Russian names on that list, but there might be a few.
Spakovsky or Shpakovskii isn’t in there, but I wouldn’t have expected a sociologist who had been out of work in his field for over a decade to be paper clipped.
He was born in Saint Petersburg…
Uh, yes, the capital of Russia? Your point?
No point, he was a white emigre born in Russia and an ethnic slav mystery solved. He was also a Nazi. He started teaching in Yugoslavia and then suddenly stopped in 1941. Then yada, yada, yada it was suddenly 1950 and he popped up in Germany and then Huntsville, Alabama.
Now his son is in the Heritage Foundation, he’s destroying everything, and he looks like he intentionally modeled himself off the nazi villain from Indiana jones
I don’t know if you can really call Huntsville a small town? It’s a city of almost a million people, including the suburbs around it.
In 1941?
Technically I don’t think he got to Huntsville until 1951, but yeah when he got there it was a town of less than 17k people and only 4 square miles.
In 1941 he was somewhere else… Doing something. Who knows what. We can’t say for sure what he was doing before he suddenly reappears in Germany in 1950 and then off to the city that never sleeps, Huntsville, Alabama, in 1951.
Your post doesn’t say he moved to Huntsville in 1951, it says he retired there over a decade later after teaching in the university in Jacksonville,
FloridaAlabama (thanks to derfunkatron for the correction)Jacksonville State University is in Jacksonville, Alabama, not Jacksonville, Florida.
You can also verify which Jacksonville this is supposed be because little Von Spakovsky was born in Huntsville in 1959.
Granted, this thread is full of wild speculation, but the Jacksonville/Huntsville thing is factual.
Oh shit, thanks for the correction on that. I’ll edit the relevant comments
deleted by creator
Huh, if only there was some way to know how big Huntsville was in 1951
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Huntsville,_Alabama
It’s hilarious how many random points you have to swat down, like people are playing gotcha with every aspect of the post.
So Hans Anatol von Spakovsky was an immigrant anchor baby?
More of a paperclip baby
