idk the comments in this thread feel very male centered tbh.
false accusations count for 2-12% of rpe charges whereas >80% of women who are assaulted don’t even get to report it - so why is there such outrage over the 2-12% of the 20% (ie 0.24% to 2.4% of rpe cases) that unfairly impact men and not the 80% of cases that unfairly impact women?
or do people think r*pe isn’t as damaging as false accusations?
and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to solve both but what do you think should be prioritized?
Don’t get me wrong, there are huge problems both with (parts of) male culture normalizing sexual harrassment and barriers to reporting of sexual assault, but none of that means that it isn’t expected that some amount of it goes unpunished so we don’t punish anyone innocent. Believe the victim doesn’t mean you instantly condemn the accused, it means you support the victim with their problems and don’t start questioning everything outside of court. (Money/power also probably plays a big role in how many high profile cases that seem pretty clear go unpunished, but I don’t need to explain that to lemmy of all places).
So anything suggesting that less than 100% of accusations leading to convictions leaves a horrible taste.
No one in here has in any way lessened the victimhood of woman in any way that ive seen, they’ve literally just stated that innocence until proven guilty should remain in effect. Genders aside entirely, do you not see the issue with allowing someone to have the ability to end someones career, family, and and social standing with a simple accusation? Not even in the cintext of anything sexual, that is a wild abuse of power to have, no?
Because if you falsely accuse me of a crime and im looking at jail time, we have a problem that is going to turn violent very fast. Im a firm believer in persuing rapists. It is in no way paradoxical for me to say that is would be unfair for my innocence should be presumptive.
I can only assume that people advocating for the blanket belief of woman victims must all be women, because how are you possibly going to put yourself in a situation where half of the people around you can simoly say three words and your entire life is over. As it stands now, any woman who walks into my buisness could accuse me of rape and i would lose my family, my job, and likely my house. Literally half of the people i interact with could end my life.
Its funny, theres a parallel with that last sentence that id be lacking to not bring up. But when when its in the context of half of the people you meet being able to physically end your life, thats a problem.
The only thing people are advocating for here is eliminating the double standard. Everyone should be presumed innocent in any type of crime, because at least for me im not serving time for a crime i didnt commit without taking everyone else involved down.
Edit: yeah, so as expected, i had a couple decent discussions with people. As soon as they realised they were wrong, they got offended and started name calling, completely dropping any attempt at pretending they stand for something other than hate. Pretty fuckin cringe
The point is that unjustly accused people have the right to violent uphold their rights against persecution. If you accept false accusations as an eventuality, you accept violent retribution as well.
Feel free to explain why correctly accused people wouldn’t do the same thing.
Also feel free to explain how due process only applies to other people because you’re allowed to be violent if the law even thinks of responding to an accusation, false or otherwise, like it would for any other crime.
Not quite, in fact you just revealed your issue. I never stated that, youre making your own assumptions, and they are quite revealing. If they have any form of evidence, then they’re not unjustly accusing. They’re offered the same protections as a reasonable person, because they are. Unlike you.
What do you mean thats not true? It’s one hundred percent true, because im not rich and powerful. Im a regular guy and have no protections against that sort of manipulation whatsoever. And thats exactly what everyone in this thread has been getting at.
Also holy fuck just pointing out that i have no protections against that is sexist? Bro it is literally sexist for me to claim innocence. Wow.
I have been a supporter of women, and of both genders, likely longer than you have been alive. I will continue to support women with or without you, but quite frankly we dont need your bullshit polluting the message. Its shit like your “all men are evil” bullshit that is the reason for so many of our current issues.
Idk isn’t people getting disgusted and defensive when put in the same group as rapists and pedophiles a good thing?
Imagine the alternative where men are just fine with it or even start making jokes about it like the male communities in other apps. I would just abandon lemmy.
idk the comments in this thread feel very male centered tbh.
false accusations count for 2-12% of rpe charges whereas >80% of women who are assaulted don’t even get to report it - so why is there such outrage over the 2-12% of the 20% (ie 0.24% to 2.4% of rpe cases) that unfairly impact men and not the 80% of cases that unfairly impact women?
or do people think r*pe isn’t as damaging as false accusations?
and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to solve both but what do you think should be prioritized?
Because guilty until proven innocent.
Don’t get me wrong, there are huge problems both with (parts of) male culture normalizing sexual harrassment and barriers to reporting of sexual assault, but none of that means that it isn’t expected that some amount of it goes unpunished so we don’t punish anyone innocent. Believe the victim doesn’t mean you instantly condemn the accused, it means you support the victim with their problems and don’t start questioning everything outside of court. (Money/power also probably plays a big role in how many high profile cases that seem pretty clear go unpunished, but I don’t need to explain that to lemmy of all places).
So anything suggesting that less than 100% of accusations leading to convictions leaves a horrible taste.
The manosphere hate to acknowledge women as victims, and love to identify as one themselves
No one in here has in any way lessened the victimhood of woman in any way that ive seen, they’ve literally just stated that innocence until proven guilty should remain in effect. Genders aside entirely, do you not see the issue with allowing someone to have the ability to end someones career, family, and and social standing with a simple accusation? Not even in the cintext of anything sexual, that is a wild abuse of power to have, no?
Because if you falsely accuse me of a crime and im looking at jail time, we have a problem that is going to turn violent very fast. Im a firm believer in persuing rapists. It is in no way paradoxical for me to say that is would be unfair for my innocence should be presumptive.
I can only assume that people advocating for the blanket belief of woman victims must all be women, because how are you possibly going to put yourself in a situation where half of the people around you can simoly say three words and your entire life is over. As it stands now, any woman who walks into my buisness could accuse me of rape and i would lose my family, my job, and likely my house. Literally half of the people i interact with could end my life.
Its funny, theres a parallel with that last sentence that id be lacking to not bring up. But when when its in the context of half of the people you meet being able to physically end your life, thats a problem.
The only thing people are advocating for here is eliminating the double standard. Everyone should be presumed innocent in any type of crime, because at least for me im not serving time for a crime i didnt commit without taking everyone else involved down.
Edit: yeah, so as expected, i had a couple decent discussions with people. As soon as they realised they were wrong, they got offended and started name calling, completely dropping any attempt at pretending they stand for something other than hate. Pretty fuckin cringe
Wow so tuff, this guy absolutely pulverized that strawman
The point is that unjustly accused people have the right to violent uphold their rights against persecution. If you accept false accusations as an eventuality, you accept violent retribution as well.
Feel free to explain why correctly accused people wouldn’t do the same thing.
Also feel free to explain how due process only applies to other people because you’re allowed to be violent if the law even thinks of responding to an accusation, false or otherwise, like it would for any other crime.
It applies differently because reasonable people presume innocence and will therefore support those accised without evidence.
LMAO
Love the casual implication that women can’t possibly be asking for that evidence to taken and treated seriously.
Not quite, in fact you just revealed your issue. I never stated that, youre making your own assumptions, and they are quite revealing. If they have any form of evidence, then they’re not unjustly accusing. They’re offered the same protections as a reasonable person, because they are. Unlike you.
Okay buddy Redditor
This is simply not true (not to mention extremely sexist) and it’s exactly what the post is getting at.
What do you mean thats not true? It’s one hundred percent true, because im not rich and powerful. Im a regular guy and have no protections against that sort of manipulation whatsoever. And thats exactly what everyone in this thread has been getting at.
Also holy fuck just pointing out that i have no protections against that is sexist? Bro it is literally sexist for me to claim innocence. Wow.
No, I’m calling you sexist because you are sexist.
Name calling. Cool. Fuck you.
I have been a supporter of women, and of both genders, likely longer than you have been alive. I will continue to support women with or without you, but quite frankly we dont need your bullshit polluting the message. Its shit like your “all men are evil” bullshit that is the reason for so many of our current issues.
That’s a lot of words to say “I have internalized my sexism”.
And thats a lot of words to say that you’re a troll, thats the nature of words.
Also illiterate. You literally havent read anything ive said. I’m done here, i don’t engage with bigots.
Good bye, sexist!
Idk isn’t people getting disgusted and defensive when put in the same group as rapists and pedophiles a good thing?
Imagine the alternative where men are just fine with it or even start making jokes about it like the male communities in other apps. I would just abandon lemmy.