Some of you have probably seen the blog post a few months ago about how GNOME is more strongly depending on systemd. The changes mentioned there have landed into the latest stable versions of the mentioned software (GNOME 49) and do affect us. In particular, the main culprit is the removal of the non-systemd fallback code in gnome-session. This makes it currently impossible to launch gnome-shell/mutter on a non-systemd system. A fairly straightforward patch of using elogind, like what was previously done, no longer works either.
Since we don’t have the time or interest to write a new non-systemd codepath for gnome-session, this means that all support for gnome-based desktops has to be dropped. In particular, the affected packages would be gnome-session, gnome-shell, mutter, and gnome-settings-daemon. For now, the old versions are still in the repos but because there is so much intertwining between other gtk/gnome packages, there is no guarantee they actually work and will later be removed from our repos.
Standalone gnome applications will still continue to be packaged, but it is simply not feasible anymore to support gnome desktops without systemd.
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I read as “Arch Linux drops support for GNOME” and my heart fluttered
I did the same but was skeptical since Arch is an only systemd system so there’s no point it would affect Arch anyways
since Arch is an only systemd system
Like almost any systemusing Systemd.
Hopefully other software doesn’t follow this path, otherwise it will be practically impossible to run a distro without systemd.
what is the argument against using systemd?
It does too many things too well.
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it’s quite modular. I would argue that each individual component does follow that ethos
systemd isn’t a pid1; systemd-init is
Compared to what? Most services do not run PID1
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systemdeez nuts
My guess (i dont understand it all that well) is that people are less again using systemd, than against a growing dependency on systemd. If something bad happens to it, it could drag down other big elements of the linux ecosystem with itself.
Linux people hate change and think software written in 1970 is the perfect software for modern desktops.
I’m sure all 12 users of artix will be very sad lol
Not really, I’m using kde.
Boo, troll dich.
So no GNOME on BSD anymore?
If you want GNOME you need a corporate aligned linux-only desktop with all the IBM trimmings? IBM who has been known forever for the poor quality of their code? IBM who pays by the KLOC?
Linux itself is entirely “corporate-aligned.” It exists and is developed almost entirely by and for corporations.
I dug up this link from June, which tells us why they made such a design choice of strong depressing on systemd.
https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/
Funny thing is every open source developer strives to support as many systems and platforms as possible, by following best practices and open standards, GNOME goes backwards.
Isn’t systemd that open standard though?
Same with Wayland?
Isn’t systemd that open standard though?
No. It doesn’t support BSD, just for starters, even though most of the established desktop environments originally ran there as well as on Linux. So by definition, anything that relies on systemd can’t “support as many systems and platforms as possible”. And to my knowledge, no actual standards document defining protocols and interfaces has ever been published (although I admit, as an OpenRC user, I don’t pay much attention), meaning that the interface can change without warning. If systemd works for you, that’s fine, but don’t try to build it up into something it isn’t.
Yeah? Try having it and s6 or Runit or dinit in the same repo then. Artix does have those 3 and more, but not Systemd, guess why?
And Systemd only runs on Linux kernel btw.
Yeah but it could be an open standard, for Linux, could it not?
I don’t really understand your first point though. That would be no problem if you organized the packages and declared conflicts for systemd against the other init systems.
I am not knowledgeable enough to answer your question. But if it were an open standard, it would be more like Xorg than Wayland. There is only one X server implementation, just like there is only one systemd implementation.
Here Gnome is kinda like the websites which only work with Chromium based browsers. “Everybody is using Chrome anyways, right?” In a sense it’s also not really systemd’s or Chromium’s fault, that some devs decided to only support their platform.
There is only one X server implementation
That isn’t quite true. There have been several proprietary implementations for non-Linux systems—Apple’s XQuartz was still being maintained as of a couple of years ago, although I don’t know about its current status. Standards documents exist, and anyone can code to them.
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Someone needs to be removed from the mod team.
Dang, i knew this was gonna be problematic, but i thought it might’ve been fixable with an elogind type of approach. I don’t use gnome myself, but it definitely sucks if you’re someone who likes using gnome but doesn’t want to use systemd. I’m a Void user myself, so i’m interested in seeing if the Void team ends up making the same decision as Artix.
My understanding is that it is fixable by just implementing a couple of APIs, but Artix barely has the resources to fix their own init system, so they aren’t able to support such compatibility.
I expect that would be the problem. Gentoo very noticeably is still only offering up to 48 in the main repo—not sure whether that’s just normal maintainer lag or someone’s trying to patch it.
While Artix has not much ressources, it also has not a own init system. I runs on maybe 7 init systems though.
I feel like Void devs will first wait it out. Perhaps Chimera Linux’ devs will come up with some workaround by then. A possible workaround could be to make Duncaen’s systemd fork official. Though I’m not sure if maintaining 2 init systems would be less work than to patch the systemd API specific stuff.
The prob here?
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Wayland
I take it you’re against transistioning from X11 to Wayland then?
On two versions of debian on two computers I have tried to use wayland and both times I have had really bad graphical problems and lag/stuttering of multiple visual elements. I’m sure it is fine when it works, but my problem with Wayland is that for whatever reason, it just does not work on my systems.
Each time, this was on fresh installs of the operating system as well, so I have no idea why it doesn’t like me.
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They should have jsut named it X12 less hate I imagine. x11 is unmaintainable which is why wayland was created.
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“Some of you have probably seen the blog post a few months ago about how GNOME is more strongly depending on systemd.”
“Standalone gnome applications will still continue to be packaged, but it is simply not feasible anymore to support gnome desktops without systemd.”
What I always say when anyone tries to defend systemd but I just get shut down and talked down to because nobody wants to admit systemd lead person is on purpose influencing with flawed and unethical objectives/workflows that undermine actual openness and community efforts. He don’t give af about the community.
This isn’t a secret plot by systemd, this is gnome making dependency choices and a distro that explicitly doesn’t support the new dependency being left in the cold. That’s just how dependencies work.
Boo systemd. Boo I say. Boo
seems like a skill issue to me since the Guix people just added integration for their init system without a problem
