We’re in the 21st century, and the vast majority of us still believe in an utterly and obviously fictional creator deity. Plenty of people, even in developed countries with decent educational systems, still believe in ghosts or magic (e.g. voodoo). And I–an atheist and a skeptic–am told I need to respect these patently false beliefs as cultural traditions.
Fuck that. They’re bad cultural traditions, undeserving of respect. Child-proofing society for these intellectually stunted people doesn’t help them; it is in fact a disservice to them to pretend it’s okay to go through life believing these things. We should demand that people contend with reality on a factual basis by the time they reach adulthood (even earlier, if I’m being completely honest). We shouldn’t be coddling people who profess beliefs that are demonstrably false, simply because their feelings might get hurt.
You’re putting a lot of stock in the words of a pedophile and expecting me to do the same.
Where is the verse that says women can admonish, withold sex and beat their disobedient husbands? It doesn’t exist because the goat fuckers who wrote that vile book viewed women as property.
Cruel? There are guidelines for slavery in all Abrahamic religions.
Superstitious and ignorant? Believing in a magical sky fairy. Enough said.
Ok, there is a lot to unpack. Let’s discuss each point :)
You must be referring to Aisha. How is he a paedophile? This is known as a fallacy of presentism: judging something that happened at a different time using current day standards disregarding the context.
Some sources say they were bethrothed when she was at the age of 6, others say 7. They then consummated the marriage when she was 9 when she reached puberty as was custom at the time. A time where a 10 year-old boy could inherit his father and become the head of the house. In a society where there was only 2 categories: kids and adults, adulthood being reached at puberty. At a time where the average life expectancy was around 27 against around 80 in current western countries. So now you get the context.
No body at the time used this argument because it was just the way society was. It is illogical to judge a distant society with the arbitrary norms of nowadays. There is no consensus amongst western countries about the legal age of marriage or of consent. There is even divergence within the US. It even changes in the span of half a century, in these countries, from 12 to 16. So how can we objectively judge societies from 14 centuries ago?
The premise of this question is false. It implies that there should be a symmetry for there to be equality, otherwise one side is considered less than the other. Islam’s view is coherent with the fact that both man and woman are different physically and psychologically different. It gives to each his role within the society and family at a smaller scale. None is considered less than the other.
Who wrote the book? (Also, language?)
Not the same slavery as what happened in America, but yes, having servants was widespread at the time and the genetic guideline is free them.
Are you implying you have evidence God does not exist?
Fucking a 9 year old is abhorrent if it happened two thousand years ago or today. A 9 year old is not an adult. Having a period does not make a girl an adult. If your “god” is the source of all knowledge then why wouldn’t he inform the so called profit before he was off raping children? The whole thing is disgusting and anyone that defends it should be summarily executed.
Infant mortality skews this, it wasn’t unusual for an adult to live to 60, assuming they made it to adulthood in the first place.
Well the religious claim is they’re the source of all fucking morality because they do what their god told them! Did your god suddenly up and change the age at which someone matures into an adult or was he just along for the show when the dirty prophet was off raping a 9 year old?
So women aren’t allowed to preach, aren’t allowed to own land, aren’t allowed to admonish their shitty goat fucking husbands, but they’re somehow equal. Not buying it and thankfully many women aren’t either, because women are far more likely to stop practicisng Islam than men.
The aforementioned goat fuckers.
Any and all slavery is abhorrent and cruel.
The burden of proof is on the nut jobs claiming there’s a magic sky fairy not on me.
You are not backing any of your emotional claims and just keep repeating how cruel, abhorrent and “bad” what things that differ from what you perceive as “right” are (also slurs). Also calm down with the hate speech (“summarily executed”).
Calm down (if this not just a rhetoric you are using since you know you have no logical ground) and use your brain.
You missed the whole point that whatever morality you are holding is subjective. If you accept yours as valid, it means you cannot disagree with whatever morality others may have because they followed the same process as you to have theirs since it is subjective to them and their context. If you disagree with your views being subjective, you are invited to demonstrate how they are objective.
You postulate that a 9 year old is not an adult. Today I agree with you. Kids spend a lot of time at schools, watch cartoons, play games etc. So by the age of 9 they have no experience of the world and cannot be responsible of a household. At the time however things were completely different, they were directly confronted to life, had responsibility caring for their brothers and sisters and working. You can still find pictures of 3 year old working in the US from the late 90s.
They matured faster then compared to current days.
The question is at what age do we reach adulthood? Even in current days, with children living in somewhat comparable conditions, many disagree. Each country decides what is the legal age, which is different from its neighbours (and even differs within the country, eg. the US) but that is what each society decided. You claim there is a universal and atemporal age? The world and history disagrees with you. So at that time and in that society they decided the rule was to reach puberty. You don’t like it? It’s normal, it’s subjective.
Just a note: Islam doesn’t fix the age of consent but says the norm of the society should be followed. Which means the condition of reaching puberty cannot be applied wholesale today, and the local customs should be followed.
This question was directed to you and you evaded it.
False, they can amongst women and only of necessary if men are around. You might bicker about this but this is normal since you are not familiar with the concept of حياء (there isn’t a word for it in English and gets mistranslated as shyness) and the respect of women.
False, Islam came and changed that. They can inherit properties instead of being inherited themselves. And whatever women possess, whatever money they earn (of course they can work) is solely theirs and the husband has no right whatsoever on it. She can come from a rich family, the husband still has to provide for her and the house. Of course both can agree to share however they see fit, it’s up to them but she had every right to just keep her money.
They can and they can even ask a judge and get divorce.
Wrong answer. You can say “I don’t know” if you don’t know.
Not true for all. Islam forbade taking free people as servants, exception for prisoners of war since there was no prison system. Also in many occasions pushed to free slaves, for the expiation of sins for example. Islam put the framework so that in the end many of those who had servants when Islam came had none over time. People bought some in order to free them: a notable example is Bibal ibn Rabbah, an Ethiopian slave bought to be freed by Abu Bakr (the 1st Caliph); he later became the treasurer of the state.