we have raised prices by 5%. this allows us to avoid raising prices by 5%
We have raised prices by 5% to avoid having to update all the menus we will just add it to the bottom line.
It costs way less to print ONE page to a menu than raising prices and making a whole new menu… duh! Makes sense!
People are more price sensitive to different menu items. This allows them to avoid that. Even if you know about the fee.
Great way to lose customers.
You gotta raise prices? Raise prices. But nobody likes getting random extras at the end of their bills.
Just. Tell. Me. The. Price.
Stop with this…
Welcome to New America. Expect to start seeing fees like this literally everywhere you go.
Voting (or not) has consequences.
In most states this is explicitly illegal in food service.
They were just too lazy to update the prices for each item on the menu. A note at the bottom and called it a day
If I read this on a menu in a situation where I could go elsewhere, I would.
I might say this could be a temporary way around having to pay to get all your menus reprinted, but these doofuses appear to have printed it directly on the menu. So yeah, they can get fucked with an egg beater.
Is there an upcharge for said fucking.
5%
So yeah, they can get fucked with an egg beater.
🤣
there’s a shitty restaurant near me that does this.
they call it the ‘honest to goodness fee’ and state the fee is to ensure they can bring us the lowest possible prices, by charging 3% on the whole bill… when I saw it on the menu after sitting down, I left.
I don’t participate in bait/switch pricing since it’s illegal
That’s insane to me. It’s literally just a sales tactic so they can look cheaper on their menu but you still pay the increased prices. I would have left also.
It’s not a “sales tactic” it’s just fraud.
It can be both.
Kind of funny they try to spin it as good for customers
It means you don’t have to tip.
If you’re not going to tip, then don’t eat there. You giving the tip to the owner isn’t going to change anything.
Where I live, if the prices need to be higher to stay in business and give your staff a good wage, the prices just get raised. We don’t tip except for rounding when it’s cash. So I don’t think adding an extra cost is weird, but it should be in the prices, and American tipping culture should go back into the hole it came from.
The person you’re punishing has the least control over the situation, even if the punishment is small. Screwing over workers only makes it more American.
He’s not American. People in Europe get a somewhat liveable wage that doesn’t rely on tips.
They did make that pretty clear! If they weren’t going to tip or their tip doesn’t matter, then holding out doesn’t matter either. If their tip was going to matter, then they’ve screwed over the employee and not the employer at all.
If you are upholding tipping culture you are literally part of the reason as to why they need tips.
my favorite kind of hidden fees is when a client pushes a revision clause into a contract for research projects (read: fudge the numbers to their vision of the world) but during legal back and forth the per hour rate for revisions emerges and the client totally misses it and then benign 5k small-scale project gets an extra 10k price tag because those “can we present data with slightly different dimensions?” add up real fast and tough shit.
Illegal in Germany for a good reason.
I once went to a restaurant that charged a 5% fee for paying by credit card. They only accepted credit cards.
I think it’s illegal, but how could I enforce this?
“Legal tender for all debts public and private” is a guarantee backed by the treasury. if you owe the restaurant a debt, they are legally obligated to accept cash tender. Note that you have to actually owe them, you can’t demand they accept cash tender up front, they have the right to refuse the terms of sale. if you can successfully argue their card only policy was not successfully communicated, then you have a case. I ANAL.
When BussyGyatt says I ANAL, I believe it.
I’ve Karened out with cash on the table a few times and got away with it.
yeah im with the boomers on this one. paper menus too, fuck your qr code.
Yes but, the USA is borderline anarchy nowadays (yes, I am exaggerating a bit here)… rules and laws only matter if they are applied and enforced uniformly and currently, they are not…
That is illegal in my state. I wrote a strongly worded email to a former landlord informing them of this when they tried to pull thos shit and they immediately backed down, presumably because a bunch of other people did the same thing. It is insane how often companies do just blatantly illegal shit in hopes that nobody will notice because the penalty for getting caught is basically just pay back the people who noticed they got scammed and maybe like a $50 fine that was set when $50 was a huge amount of money.
If the penalty for breaking the law is a flat fine, it isn’t a penalty, it’s a price.
This is only illegal in some states, but apparently you can get around it by reversing the praying and giving a discount for cash. Which is complete bullshit.
The discount for cash thing was based around credit card terms of service
Most credit cards used to require merchants to agree to charge the regular price for credit card transactions. If they found out a merchant was charging customers 2-5% more for credit cards to cover fees, they’d cut off the merchant so they could no longer accept their card. VISA would do it a lot, and no longer being able to accept VISA is a huge blow to any business
Businesses would use the workaround of a cash discount to avoid angering the credit card companies, but more recently it isn’t necessary. I’m not sure if it was a regulatory change or market pressures, but I haven’t heard of a merchant getting dropped for that in a while
It was illegal in NY. They’ve since used the loophole to charge you anyway
I bet they also have suggested tip amounts of 25, 30 and 50 percent at the bottom of the bill.
Sounds like i need to open a *Everything’s $1 ** store and just make sure I get the fine print squared away…
99c and up
Wok is dead
Not to make excuses for this, because it’s not fair to customer, and it’s bait and switch pricing IMO… but I understand how you could get there. Sorry this is long winded.
Based on the “thank you for your support”, and their clearly not having a legal department, my guess is this is a small business. Prices have swung so wildly in the US in 2025 it’s basically unmanageable without a dedicated team.
For example in August of 2024 the price for a lb of coffee according the US Bureau of Labor Statistics was $6.31. In August of 2025 it was $8.87. That’s a 40% increase in one calendar year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000717311
Eggs were $3.20 a dozen in Aug. of '24, but by March of '25 they were $6.22 that’s a 94% increase in 7 months. Then they crashed back down to 3.58 (a 42.44% decrease) by August. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000708111
Now for the sake of a practical example, here’s a pretty typical menu for a family diner in New Jersey. It’s 11 pages. Maybe 20 items per page. Each item may have 5 to 10 ingredients.
https://www.pomptonqueendiner.com/menu_main/- You can either try to recalculate all of that every week or two based on tariffs, inflation, bird flu, etc… then reprint and spiral bind 50 to 100, 11-page menus (technically 6 laminated front and back).
- You can overhaul your business model to be leaner, but maybe lose some customers.
- Or you can try to guestimate a number you think you and your customers can live with and distribute your gains and losses across the whole menu and reprint one page with a fee (hopefully) once.
It’s a shit sandwich. I don’t think this was a good solution, but I don’t think a lot of small businesses (or consumers) have good solutions these days. McDonalds has a procurement team, and can lock in terms with their vendors a year in advance. They can update prices on digital menu boards on the fly. They can handle these things pretty easily. Your local greasy spoon may not.
I’d personally weigh whether I think this place and the people who run it are maliciously trying to exploit me or just find a way to get by selling cheese burgers and eggs in this economy.
As a restaurant owner, I disagree. It’s shitty of them to charge a hidden fee like this
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It’s really easy to update prices. Sysco, the bulk supplier of >70% of US restaurants, provides a very easy tool that can update your prices automatically based on increased wholesale price. US Foods has a similar tool
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The biggest pain in the ass there is printing new menus. If you’re doing 1 page, the whole thing really isn’t any worse. Dealing with shitty printers is the real nuisance. Maybe if it were a sticky note on the menu or something, I could understand it. If they’re re-printing the menu, it’s bullshit
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It’s shitty to those of us that are honest. Customers will see another pizza place selling larges for $15.49, and my prices at $16 and go with the other one because it’s cheaper, despite the fact that after the 5% mine is cheaper. Seriously, I’ve had customers tell me that type of thing
I don’t want to do the hidden fees, because I hate them personally, but I know I’m giving up some sales not tacking on some bullshit charge
Related rant: For DSP delivery, like Doordash, I charge regular menu price, but charge $3.50 for delivery. I know I’d get more marking up the menu 20-30% and offering “free” delivery. I can see the cart abandonment rate. I hate the dishonest business model though
I love that you try to run a honest business, it’s rare to see nowadays. But:
Sysco, the bulk supplier of >70% of US restaurants
Has the US completely given up on this market competition thing? Why is that in every US market, there are 1-3 players with 70-90% market share? I mean based on this, the only thing you need for inflation to spike is for companies like Sysco to raise prices.
It’s not really that we gave up, it’s just that the little guys can’t compete with the big guys, and the big guys all merged together and collude to make everything as expensive as possible. I try to support smaller businesses when I can but they are usually significantly more expensive and I can’t always afford it. There’s not really a solution for regular people when our politicians are all bought and paid for.
I love that you try to run a honest business, it’s rare to see nowadays
Thanks, I genuinely appreciate that. The restaurant is just a side project, and I only almost break even on it, so people appreciating a straight-forward business is the main joy I get out of it
Has the US completely given up on this market competition thing?
Yes. Over 90% of the market is consolidated into 3 major players: Sysco, US Foods, and Performance Foods. Given how monopolistic American markets are, you can probably guess what I’m going to say next: US Foods and Performance Foods are exploring a merger. Given the regulatory landscape and current US politics, I expect a proposed merger to eventually go through
The US restaurant market is going to get even more consolidated under only a few distributors, which will mean restaurant prices are going to keep rising
Silver lining: That consolidation has allowed a much larger R&D budget than before. Some of the new coatings and things coming out are crazy good. I did a tasting with my Sysco rep, and the frozen french fries are insane now. Fresh cannot realistically compete, which means less food waste and a better end product. As long as they don’t start filling the fries with fake shit, it’s great
While there is a lot of genuinely anti competitive behavior in the market (e.g. huge mergers that should never be allowed).
The reality of a lot of “competition” as we tend to describe it in capitalist economics is that someone usually wins. At least for a while. It’s often not related to their core competency or quality either. It’s often about financial leverage, regulatory favors, technical advantages, etc…
For example, Taxis weren’t crushed by Uber because of better drivers, fuel efficiency, or more comfortable rides. It was the challenge of hailing a cab, the regulatory barriers of taxi drivers getting licensed (which Uber just didn’t bother with), commercial insurance, and the ability of Uber to operate at a loss while building their market share. Taxis had a 100 year head start in this competition, and they were pretty much obsolete in a few years. They lost due to competitive disadvantages they didn’t even know they had. And Taxis still exist, they’re just fighting for the scraps left by Uber and Lyft.
I’m experiencing this first-hand with my restaurant. In-house delivery drivers cannot compete with Uber Eats/Doordash/etc. because they don’t need to make money or even break even, don’t have to pay for insurance, and don’t have to deal with liability
One difference, though, is there is going to be a lot of experienced drivers in the workforce when Uber Eats/Doordash/etc. try to jack up prices. I can relatively easily swap to in-house deliveries again, whereas taxis can’t just start back up
We’ve been badly in need of some widespread trust busting for a few decades now
I can see the cart abandonment rate.
I don’t know if this is a common practice but when we order we often fill a cart a few times with a few different combinations and a few different locations just to compare options. I don’t know how much info you get but I wouldn’t scrutinize that metric too harshly.
If that is common practice it would seem to indicate that “cart abandonment rate” is actually a very important metric, since users often abandon carts and so a restaurant needs something about the menu/presentation that makes people abandon them less and “wins” a larger share of the market of users on the platform.
My metrics depend on the source. On my own website, I could theoretically see precisely what’s happening. I’m too lazy for that, so I just run a DB query to see how many carts have things in them without ordering vs. number of orders today
For Doordash/Uber Eats/Toast/Etc. carts, I generally get basic stats like % of carts abandoned (someone added food items, but never ordered from anywhere), and % of carts ordered elsewhere (they added items from multiple restaurants, then didn’t order from mine)
They give me a baseline to compare against, but I think it’s a national average, which isn’t useful. When I signed up, they gave me a few hundred dollars in credits, so I applied them towards offering free delivery for the first week or so, which is the main metric I compare it to
Broadly though, I agree with you. My business partner always looks as those as all potential lost customers, and I have to remind him plenty of people are just comparing multiple restaurants. I do also wonder how many are just bots as well
I have to remind him plenty of people are just comparing multiple restaurants. I do also wonder how many are just bots as well
Good, I would wonder the same.
Just so you’re aware, doordash/Uber are known for increasing the single item price after you’ve set them. Say you set a pizza for 12$, they’ll charge 15$ just for the item, PLUS all their other fees.
They also calculate tips by including taxes and all their fees. Actual cost ends up about 200% the original menu price. Gah.
I didnt have an actual point, just complaining.
Yeah, I feel ya. I absolutely loathe having to use them, an miss when pizza places had their own delivery crew
I don’t believe they’re able to under my DSP contract, but that’s a good reminder to keep checking it. Contracts only mean as much as your ability to enforce them, and for a small business is basically zero
I bet I could write a quick web scraper on a cron job to pull the prices each week. Thanks!
I can see the cart abandonment rate
for the last several years every time i felt a craving for some food delivered, i’ve noped right out on the checkout screen with the final price with delivery fee and knowing that doesn’t include tip. not fucking worth it, i’ve got other things to eat
edit: the last time i did this, the delivery fee was ~$2.00. is $3.50 standard now? lol…no.
God, if it was just $3.50 Id actually get delivery once in a while. Where I am it ends up being closer to 30% of the meal because of delivery surcharge + delivery fee + tip.
Why would it not cost 3.50 for a taxi for your burrito
that’s a great question. but the answer doesn’t matter, because i’m not paying it.
I saw everything you put in your cart. I had toapologize to that pizza dough before I threw it away :'( (jk, Toast only gives me broad metrics)
edit: the last time i did this, the delivery fee was ~$2.00. is $3.50 standard now? lol…no
I can’t speak for every restaurant, but I pay a flat rate to Toast per delivery, and they fulfill for all the services I deliver through. It costs me $7.00, I split the charge with the customer and charge $3.50. I’m not a fan of the fact delivery is “cheaper” (in the sense I have a lower profit margin) than take-out, but the economic realities and my business partner overruled me on this one
One thing to note, most places will bake the delivery charge into other aspects of the price. Commonly in just the “menu” price, to make it feel like you’re only paying the regular price and get free delivery. Charging $2 for delivery means they’re probably adding in $5 somewhere else (or they’re a giant corporation operating at a loss to take market share and put small restaurants out of business, but now I’m going into yet another rant)
Yeah one of my friends and his wife orders shit off there almost every time we hang out and the prices are always crazy to me. I’ll just go get it myself. They’re always having money problems on top of it.
I wish I were in your market then. Where my restaurant is, most of the places on Doordash and other DSPs are cheaper or the same as in-restaurant prices (usually thanks to coupons or other “temporary” discounts). These platforms have huge amounts of venture capital and generally operate at a loss
As a pizza place, it makes it incredibly difficult to compete. Doordash and Uber Eats heavily subsidize the actual operating cost of their platforms, making it a generally cheaper option
Doesn’t help that they don’t have to follow the same regulations we would for traditional delivery drivers. I have to have insurance for drivers. Delivery platforms do not, in my state. If my driver gets injured in an accident, I’m liable. If a Doordash driver gets in an accident, Doordash just wipes their hands of the situation
For those reasons, I had to go with a DSP (Toast delivery) instead
I’m lucky the restaurant is just a side project and I still have my day job. Only reason we haven’t gotten squeezed out yet
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Just update the prices next to the item on the menu???
Before I start this rant I do want to preface that I have stated unequivocally I don’t think this was a good solution and it’s not what I would do for my business. With that stated…
Update the prices to what? And by what method? We’re talking about a small business. Are you paying a line cook to sit down and sharpie over 500 pages of menus?
Maybe one of the busboys wants to speculate on orange futures and the hostess has an inside line on poultry yields?
Aluminum mills don’t know what aluminum is going to cost next week and they make the fucking aluminum. I assure you the owners abuela who does the books, does not know how to appropriately price salmon in this market.
If they’re only marking their shit up 5% in this economy they are taking a shellacking.
And again I don’t think this was a good business decision. I just understand how you get there.
They’re going to have to reprint the menu anyway when the price of the item goes up and they want to charge 6%
But, the government charged those foreigners so everything will be cheaper now, right? /S
Must be the trans and gay people!! /s
You don’t have to recalulate the prices per week and there is no indication that they are doing that with the fees which they appear to have changed once with a nice round number.
You are making excuses for what is obviously a deceptive tactic. Blow smoke elsewhere
That’s actually a thing I addressed. You don’t have to agree with me but reading the thing before whining about it would have been cool.
I read it I believe its transparently excusing obviously manipulative behaviour. I didn’t not read you nor misunderstand I disagree now stop your whining
But I did address the nice round number thing. Very directly. I also absolutely did not make an excuse for it and I call it out as a bad business practice.
So I think you’re just full of shit. Read the fucking thing or don’t, but don’t try to moral high road me with a straw man.
Let’s go through it
…I understand how you could get there.,
Yes stealing
Prices have swung so wildly in the US in 2025 it’s basically unmanageable without a dedicated team.
Like a calculator and a spreadsheet?
You can either try to recalculate all of that every week or two based on tariffs, inflation, bird flu, etc… then reprint and spiral bind 50 to 100, 11-page menus (technically 6 laminated front and back).
You don’t actually do this. Nobody does this. What a sandwich costs isn’t exact cost + a certain number of pennies its what people in the area are willing to pay for a sandwich. Cost is a floor and what planet earth does in case of uncertainty is build in a cushion. It is what everyone is obviously doing.
Or you can try to guestimate a number you think you and your customers can live with and distribute your gains and losses across the whole menu and reprint one page with a fee (hopefully) once.
Everyone is guestimating all the time in small business and they do so by setting the actual price to a higher figure. If you want to do so across the board you do so by literally making that the new menu price. The entire reason not to is to gain additional business because your business looks cheaper on its face by dishonestly marking it a separate fee. There is no justification other than dishonesty for making it a separate fee and it should be illegal.
I’d personally weigh whether I think this place and the people who run it are maliciously trying to exploit me
Increasing the price whilst printing a lie on the menu board is always maliciously exploiting you. This is like you asking if keeping the box the same size and putting at first 10 20 and ultimately 33% less shit in the box was maliciously exploiting you… Are you that fuckin dense?
You are making excuses < ME
But I did address the nice round number thing. Very directly. I also absolutely did not make an excuse for it
Literally you are sitting here explaining why they somehow need to exploit you
Examine the argument… Turn it sideways… Shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. You ARE obviously making excuses. There is no complexity to it.
I didn’t say they need to exploit their customers. I said the exact opposite. In fact I agree with you that it should be illegal. I I don’t think you could be compelled in court to pay that fee if you refused it. I’ve never stated anything to the contrary of that. You’re still doing the straw man thing.
I get that you are the moral arbiter of all things and you know that when a business owner charges a $0.10 fee on a $2 egg it’s an evil get rich quick scheme to rob their community because they’re greedy bad people.
But over here in reality sometimes trade and craft businesses are run by people who are better at their trade and craft than they are at business. Sometimes, a resource intensive problem in the hands of that kind of person can result in a completely well-intentioned but terrible solution. That’s not an excuse for it, it’s just a thing that sometimes happens entirely without malice.
I’m going to bow out of this conversation here. You go on living your life with your worldview I’ll stick with mine. Good luck out there.
Part of me just really wants to throw the excel spreadsheet at it to auto adjust but even then you’d still have to input all the changes with the POS. It’s so damn annoying to exist sometimes
