Did he know the emperor was a Sith who had powers, or was he just one of billions or trillions of people who had never actually interacted with anyone who openly used the force?
Sure, later movies made force use way more commonly used within a couple decades of this guy’s bold choice, but at the time of the movie’s release it was supposed to be an uncommon thing that hadn’t even been around for a very long time.
How long was it though - maybe a couple of decades?
It’s more like inside of an authoritarian regime, propaganda is quite strong - e.g. China is the good guy and there are no questions (allowed) about that.
It was about 19 years at the start of A New Hope. So if they talked to literally one person that was over the age of 30, they’d probably know that Jedi were very real. Not common outside of active war zones and the Jedi Temple, but real. The galaxy was huge, with plenty of relatively untouched planets with sparse populations, that were relatively untouched by the Empire’s influence. There were also plenty of planets that had people, but were able to just dismiss them as nuisances most of the time (Koboh and Tatooine for example).
The propaganda thing was definitely real and a problem, but likely far more common in the Inner and Mid rims. Still, even on Coruscant, the capital world, as flooded with the Empire’s influence as a planet could be, people just had to leave the surface and go to a slightly lower level to escape their influence.
From what I’ve seen, a large portion of the population knew that the Empire was restrictive and bad, but they just didn’t feel like they could do anything about it (like real life). So, it still doesn’t make sense for anyone to not believe that the Jedi were real, and imo, makes Han and this guy (forgot his name) the equivalent of flat earthers. Again, made sense at the time, but certainly not now.
If he did not have personal experience with force users, or had not seen them successfully use their abilities, that explains how he would not see them as being demonstrated in the current running of the empire. What he would see is a lot of people pulling off massive industrial and military accomplishments being dismissed by Vader as less important than the force, which is generally subtle and difficult to see by non-force users.
“Don’t try to frighten us with your sorcerer’s ways, Lord Vader! Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels’ hidden fort—”
He is being dismissive of the effectiveness of the force based on his personal experiences, not denying its existence.
Fair enough. I had a really long response but it got deleted, so I’ll just summarize. If he knew a single one of Vader’s accomplishments (rumors of them were definitely spread by the witnesses), he would’ve never believed that. Vader served the important purpose of striking fear into those that would oppose the Empire, keeping most of the galaxy in line. He probably served as an officer in the Republic as well, possibly alongside the Jedi. Even if he didn’t, he’s in a room full of people that did. It’s ridiculously stupid to insult your extremely violent boss, especially about something that he’s provably correct about.
Speaking of flat earthers, did people believe that the Force did not exist, or merely claim that? In this particular case it seems like bravado, showing off for Moff Tarkin (I forget if he was Grand Moff at this point).
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the backstory of the character is. Maybe he was trying to do that, maybe not. I don’t think that Tarkin would’ve been impressed by not believing in the force (he served with Anakin Skywalker and the Jedi during the Clone Wars), but maybe he didn’t realize that.
Sure, later movies made force use way more commonly used within a couple decades of this guy’s bold choice, but at the time of the movie’s release it was supposed to be an uncommon thing that hadn’t even been around for a very long time.
The guy in the meme and Han Solo were just Straw Atheists I’m afraid.
Edit: “For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times. Before the Empire.” -Obi Wan in ANH
Did he know the emperor was a Sith who had powers, or was he just one of billions or trillions of people who had never actually interacted with anyone who openly used the force?
Sure, later movies made force use way more commonly used within a couple decades of this guy’s bold choice, but at the time of the movie’s release it was supposed to be an uncommon thing that hadn’t even been around for a very long time.
How long was it though - maybe a couple of decades?
It’s more like inside of an authoritarian regime, propaganda is quite strong - e.g. China is the good guy and there are no questions (allowed) about that.
It was about 19 years at the start of A New Hope. So if they talked to literally one person that was over the age of 30, they’d probably know that Jedi were very real. Not common outside of active war zones and the Jedi Temple, but real. The galaxy was huge, with plenty of relatively untouched planets with sparse populations, that were relatively untouched by the Empire’s influence. There were also plenty of planets that had people, but were able to just dismiss them as nuisances most of the time (Koboh and Tatooine for example).
The propaganda thing was definitely real and a problem, but likely far more common in the Inner and Mid rims. Still, even on Coruscant, the capital world, as flooded with the Empire’s influence as a planet could be, people just had to leave the surface and go to a slightly lower level to escape their influence.
From what I’ve seen, a large portion of the population knew that the Empire was restrictive and bad, but they just didn’t feel like they could do anything about it (like real life). So, it still doesn’t make sense for anyone to not believe that the Jedi were real, and imo, makes Han and this guy (forgot his name) the equivalent of flat earthers. Again, made sense at the time, but certainly not now.
If he did not have personal experience with force users, or had not seen them successfully use their abilities, that explains how he would not see them as being demonstrated in the current running of the empire. What he would see is a lot of people pulling off massive industrial and military accomplishments being dismissed by Vader as less important than the force, which is generally subtle and difficult to see by non-force users.
He is being dismissive of the effectiveness of the force based on his personal experiences, not denying its existence.
Fair enough. I had a really long response but it got deleted, so I’ll just summarize. If he knew a single one of Vader’s accomplishments (rumors of them were definitely spread by the witnesses), he would’ve never believed that. Vader served the important purpose of striking fear into those that would oppose the Empire, keeping most of the galaxy in line. He probably served as an officer in the Republic as well, possibly alongside the Jedi. Even if he didn’t, he’s in a room full of people that did. It’s ridiculously stupid to insult your extremely violent boss, especially about something that he’s provably correct about.
Be fair to Han - he was in the underworld where people were probably trying to scam him every day. Scepticism is self-protection.
Fair point. Still, weird thing to be skeptical about considering the abundance of evidence, but slightly understandable.
Speaking of flat earthers, did people believe that the Force did not exist, or merely claim that? In this particular case it seems like bravado, showing off for Moff Tarkin (I forget if he was Grand Moff at this point).
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the backstory of the character is. Maybe he was trying to do that, maybe not. I don’t think that Tarkin would’ve been impressed by not believing in the force (he served with Anakin Skywalker and the Jedi during the Clone Wars), but maybe he didn’t realize that.
No way, TIL Moff was a rank
An excellent point - it’s not about what the lore says, but what it said at the time:-D.
Having the people (clones) carrying out the mass killing being close to them on a personal level and also absolutely brainwashed probably helped, too.
Yeah, probably!:-P
The Jedi had been around for over 25,000 years before A New Hope. There had to be volumes of evidence for Jedi powers by the time of that film.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jedi-order-origin-timeline-canon/
The guy in the meme and Han Solo were just Straw Atheists I’m afraid.
Edit: “For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times. Before the Empire.” -Obi Wan in ANH