There will be a non-zero amount of soldiers who didn’t choose this - Israel has a mandatory military draft of 2 years for men and women, with some roles having to serve additional time. Once you are drafted, you will be pressured into things, and with “Shooting and Crying” you’ve shown a propaganda tool used to prime the civilian population for exactly this - following orders even when your conscience says it’s wrong to do so.
So yeah, i stand by my statement that IDF Soldiers who kill themselves because they can’t live with what they’ve witnessed are victims of the same machinery that kills children in the strip.
People who get non-combat jobs are unlikely to kill themselves over their service.
following orders even when your conscience says it’s wrong to do so.
Not an excuse.
So yeah, i stand by my statement that IDF Soldiers who kill themselves because they can’t live with what they’ve witnessed are victims of the same machinery that kills children in the strip.
Oh my God no, choosing to take your own life out of guilt from the actions of the army you served in is not morally equivalent to a child being obliterated by said army. Please I’m trying to be patient here
It’s not an excuse, it’s what is expected of them, and what is drilled into their brains through multiple channels while growing up, cranked up to 11 the moment the military gets their hands on them - and they get the majority of the population in their hands. Refusing to serve on conscientious grounds has only a 10% chance of being exempted. So yeah, the chance that those who kill themselves didn’t want to serve is pretty high.
Even those who refuse and are lucky to get an exemption pay a heavy price, with their job prospects shot to hell and their standing in society reduced to traitor. Not even the left wing in Israel supports them.
Israel’s military, state and how they are interwoven is not comparable to anything else i have ever heard of in my life. In most of the world you can either not enlist or it has no real repercussions on your civilian life if you refuse to serve (in my country you are not allowed to get a gun license for - i think it’s 25 years? - if you refuse to serve and have to do a 3 months longer civil service instead)
Even those who refuse and are lucky to get an exemption pay a heavy price, with their job prospects shot to hell and their standing in society reduced to traitor. Not even the left wing in Israel supports them.
Unironically yes, taking the L and tanking the consequences is the only moral thing to do in that situation holy shit. If it’s serve in the IDF or {insert consequence here}, you take {insert consequence here}. It’s literally that simple 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
They can try to refuse; Wikipedia says that 9,5% of the people who refuse on conscientious grounds are allowed to. Not serving will also wreck your chance to a normal life; Most jobs want only people who have served and completed their compulsory military service, and you are branded as a “refusenik”. Dodging the draft will get you a travel ban; you can’t even leave the country. So if your parents don’t do the smart thing and send you off before the draft, you are fucked; and if you leave, you can’t come back if you dont want to serve. Those are pretty shitty options if you just want to live your life in peace. It’s not NK, but it’s not comparable to any military in the west.
There will be a non-zero amount of soldiers who didn’t choose this - Israel has a mandatory military draft of 2 years for men and women, with some roles having to serve additional time. Once you are drafted, you will be pressured into things, and with “Shooting and Crying” you’ve shown a propaganda tool used to prime the civilian population for exactly this - following orders even when your conscience says it’s wrong to do so.
So yeah, i stand by my statement that IDF Soldiers who kill themselves because they can’t live with what they’ve witnessed are victims of the same machinery that kills children in the strip.
People who get non-combat jobs are unlikely to kill themselves over their service.
Not an excuse.
Oh my God no, choosing to take your own life out of guilt from the actions of the army you served in is not morally equivalent to a child being obliterated by said army. Please I’m trying to be patient here
It’s not an excuse, it’s what is expected of them, and what is drilled into their brains through multiple channels while growing up, cranked up to 11 the moment the military gets their hands on them - and they get the majority of the population in their hands. Refusing to serve on conscientious grounds has only a 10% chance of being exempted. So yeah, the chance that those who kill themselves didn’t want to serve is pretty high.
Even those who refuse and are lucky to get an exemption pay a heavy price, with their job prospects shot to hell and their standing in society reduced to traitor. Not even the left wing in Israel supports them.
Israel’s military, state and how they are interwoven is not comparable to anything else i have ever heard of in my life. In most of the world you can either not enlist or it has no real repercussions on your civilian life if you refuse to serve (in my country you are not allowed to get a gun license for - i think it’s 25 years? - if you refuse to serve and have to do a 3 months longer civil service instead)
Unironically yes, taking the L and tanking the consequences is the only moral thing to do in that situation holy shit. If it’s serve in the IDF or {insert consequence here}, you take {insert consequence here}. It’s literally that simple 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
This is not NK, those IDF soldiers can refuse.
Apparently spending some time in gaol is less preferable to committing genocide to them.
They can try to refuse; Wikipedia says that 9,5% of the people who refuse on conscientious grounds are allowed to. Not serving will also wreck your chance to a normal life; Most jobs want only people who have served and completed their compulsory military service, and you are branded as a “refusenik”. Dodging the draft will get you a travel ban; you can’t even leave the country. So if your parents don’t do the smart thing and send you off before the draft, you are fucked; and if you leave, you can’t come back if you dont want to serve. Those are pretty shitty options if you just want to live your life in peace. It’s not NK, but it’s not comparable to any military in the west.
Oh no not missed job opportunities, those poor victims.
Israel is the real victim of the genocide of the Palestinian people!
Nice that you ignore the 90% that dont get the chance to refuse.
Everyone of them gets a fucking change to refuse.
Everyone of those 90% is forced to serve regardless of their resistance.
Everyone of them can choose to go to gaol instead of serving.