There was germans who faced execusion for not following orders and protecting jews. Yet we didn’t give any excuses for people forced into the germany Nazi army
And perhaps more nuance should have been taken in those situations. Self-preservation is a basic human instinct and I would wager that many good people, when faced with the choice between kill someone else or be killed, would at the very least be extremely conflicted about that choice.
Just because we did something 70 years ago doesn’t mean we should be doing it now. Tradition is often a smokescreen for oppression. Let’s try and do better than our forebears and attempt to understand those who oppose us.
I’m not trying to justify anything - nowhere have I stated that any action that IDF soldiers or Hamas fighters have taken are justifiable. It’s an extremely messy, complex and convoluted set of circumstances and it does no one any service to attempt to simplify and boil down what has happened and what is happening to simple, binary soundbites.
I’m just trying to inject some empathy into this discussion. I understand that not everyone has a great capacity for empathy - particularly towards those who appear to have no empathy themselves - but to allow those who we oppose to turn us into death-hungry monsters is allowing them to harm us. I won’t allow the atrocities and war crimes to turn me into someone who cheers for death.
You only hear that bullshit when talking about the oppresors of palestinians. I never heard that excuse about russian soldiers. I never saw anybody critising rhe celebration of the death of war criminals like Dick Cheney
What you hear; what I hear; what others hear is entirely dependent upon what we subscribe to and what services we use to access information. We no longer live in a world where there are three newspapers everyone gets their information from. If you didn’t hear that then that’s likely due to the bubble you’re in. What I’ve heard is due to the bubble I’m in. We all get fed content that espouses views we already hold.
There was germans who faced execusion for not following orders and protecting jews. Yet we didn’t give any excuses for people forced into the germany Nazi army
And perhaps more nuance should have been taken in those situations. Self-preservation is a basic human instinct and I would wager that many good people, when faced with the choice between kill someone else or be killed, would at the very least be extremely conflicted about that choice.
Just because we did something 70 years ago doesn’t mean we should be doing it now. Tradition is often a smokescreen for oppression. Let’s try and do better than our forebears and attempt to understand those who oppose us.
You can justify hamas was crimes will the same bullshit.
Self preservation would have been to refuse to serve to choose jail over killing babies and risking your own life
I’m not trying to justify anything - nowhere have I stated that any action that IDF soldiers or Hamas fighters have taken are justifiable. It’s an extremely messy, complex and convoluted set of circumstances and it does no one any service to attempt to simplify and boil down what has happened and what is happening to simple, binary soundbites.
I’m just trying to inject some empathy into this discussion. I understand that not everyone has a great capacity for empathy - particularly towards those who appear to have no empathy themselves - but to allow those who we oppose to turn us into death-hungry monsters is allowing them to harm us. I won’t allow the atrocities and war crimes to turn me into someone who cheers for death.
You only hear that bullshit when talking about the oppresors of palestinians. I never heard that excuse about russian soldiers. I never saw anybody critising rhe celebration of the death of war criminals like Dick Cheney
What you hear; what I hear; what others hear is entirely dependent upon what we subscribe to and what services we use to access information. We no longer live in a world where there are three newspapers everyone gets their information from. If you didn’t hear that then that’s likely due to the bubble you’re in. What I’ve heard is due to the bubble I’m in. We all get fed content that espouses views we already hold.