Idk man some people myself included like discussing and/or arguing something. A lot of people argue impolitely or misrepresent points, but a huge portion of lemmy users have autism or other neurodivergence, so sometimes they’re not good at picking up nuance or what the other person actually meant. Also, most people in general are tribal so I think what you’re asking for might be impossible on an unrestricted platform.
I have had tons of actually good discussions on lemmy, I can link you some if you want, but it sounds like you’re seeing people say “trump just broke 5 court orders and fired all the judges who disagreed with him, then illegaly sent the national guard to Oregon. This is fascism” and saying “you can’t call everyone you don’t like a fascist!!” Those at least fascist-leaning actions. Do I think it’s actual fascism? No. But all of those actions are the dictionary definition of fascism, so if someone calls someone taking many fascist actions in succession a fascist… idk maybe hyperbole but not that extreme. It’s like calling Bernie sanders a socialist. It’s like well not really but I know what you mean.
I don’t think we can just wipe that turd off onto people with disorders. Most people have it in them to act like animals if they get the right encouragement.
There is also a difference between observing real fascism and talking about that, and then calling everything you don’t like or want to silence, fascist. There’s a very big difference and people should be more careful with words like that and only use them when it is applicable and not use it as a catch all slur. Then it loses its meaning.
People on Lemmy use fascism for everything they don’t like. The irony is that some of their own behaviors on this platform has some of the same characteristics as fascism does. Not a one to one, but there certainly isn’t much space for differing opinions and there seem to be a wish for a world where only one set of values is permitted and it should be implemented through violence. That is how a lot of people think on here and I find it amusing that they point the finger at everybody else and any attempt at nuance is met with accusations of fence-sitting. People are very very special on this platform, as they are on every other social media platform.
But let’s not blame people with disorders for a behavior that is a universal trait of human stupidity.
Adhd and autism are only considered disorders in the dsm 5, which there are many papers written about how it’s a failure
There’s a reason people call those neurodivergences and not something like schizophrenia.
Most people have it in them to act like animals if they get the right encouragement.
Sure? But most times I’ve seen someone being rude it’s because they totally missed what the other person is saying. Which is extremely common with autism which is extremely common on lemmy. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong or stupid or smart, that’s just how they interpreted the other persons words. Again not saying there ISN’T groupthink and tribalism, but 95% of the time I’ve said something politely and with evidence I have not been downvoted or removed.
A websites users downvoting and removing comments is not fascism because a website is not a government, and was not ordered to by the government. If the FCC threatens a broadcasting company because they don’t like what someone said, that IS a fascist action because it’s a government agency threatening a private company for saying something the government agency didn’t like. If the president breaks the law and ignores court orders, that IS a fascist action. Same with firing all judges that don’t agree with the president, same with denying to swear in certain elected officials, that is centralization of power. If someone does 8 by definition fascist things, and someone else does 0, if I call the first person a fascist I’m not calling everything I don’t like fascist, and the word has meaning because those WERE fascist actions. You can say it’s unfair because it’s only 8 fascist actions, but that doesn’t mean they’re calling everyone a fascist, just people who took 8 fascist actions in a row.
Also “I will not tolerate the intolerant” is not the same as “I will not tolerate trans/gay people existing, or people trying to say that’s wrong.” There is space for differing opinions as long as your opinion doesn’t infringe on other people existing. I can say something like I think we should spend more on schools than climate change, but I can’t say I think trans people are fake, or gay people are an abomination, or say climate change is a hoax. Would you prefer a society where an every day conversation is “should nagijala exist? It’s a horrible thing to be one of those people. Truly disgusting, it’s an affront to God.” And you hear that daily and fear for your life? Or allow vaccine misinformation so measles come back like it is in Florida. Personally I don’t want to live in that society. I have also never had my comment deleted and rarely get downvoted, while expressing a different opinion to the majority in almost every comment. I can show examples if you want.
I’m not really sure, maybe it’s just the extent or the amount of incompetence that makes it different to me. It’s sort of like fascism-lite, because even if trump WANTS all trans people taken away / treated as undesirables and has caused a lot more people to hate them, he hasn’t been able to enact “if you are trans you will be killed” like I would expect under fascism. I also don’t feel like even the crazy maga people want the democratic party to not exist, they just want democrats to “stop being stupid.”
I was listening to an expert on cults talk about trump and MAGA, and he said trump plays to the crowd rather than saying what he believes. For instance when he said "I hope you’re all vaccinated " in Missouri i believe, the crowd booed him and he quickly changed to “you should have the freedom to choose.” I think narcissistic con man fits everything he does more accurately than fascist, but still that’s why when someone calls him a fascist I don’t really complain.
he hasn’t been able to enact “if you are trans you will be killed” like I would expect under fascism
Im sorry but what???
Do you think the Nazis were killing jews on day one? Fascism doesn’t only become fascism once they’ve done the big bad thing and the credits are rolling. It w was still fascism way before the gas chambers were spooled up.
By all accounts, the progress of their team this term has been faster than hitlers rise to power. There isn’t really any reason to just assume it will stop itself when hes been able to bounce off any sort of semblance of consequences for his actions thus far.
and he said trump plays to the crowd rather than saying what he believes
Thats most politicians to some degree and something hitler also did, like where he co-opted various labels to dismantle them.
I think narcissistic con man fits everything he does more accurately than fascist
I’m not sure I see the reasoning to think it can’t be both.
I mean I really don’t really disagree it just doesn’t feel exactly right to call it that, I guess I can give some reasons for it. For instance only about 35% of the population even voted for Trump, so he doesn’t really have the support of the people. Our democratically elected officials are still voting on bills, and they are still (mostly) being signed off by the president. The FCC did TRY to silence someone, but the will of the people made it not happen. They do try and suppress protestors from speaking against the government, but it’s been largely pretty ineffective, minus the random brutality.
I think it’s also just the reasons someone is doing something matters, even if it practically doesn’t. If trump fires all the judges that disagree with him and appoints people that agree with him, the reason is narcissism and hurt ego, and the effects are fascist. Which is why I would say fascist actions rather than a fascist, which might be a meaningless distinction but to some it’s not.
For instance only about 35% of the population even voted for Trump, so he doesn’t really have the support of the people.
The Nazi party got 43% of the votes the election before secondary parties were banned. They had 88% turnout. This means they had 37.8% of the population vote for them.
Its extremely common for people to really, out of an excess of optimism and fear hope that clearly the nazis were so obviously different, but that wasn’t the case.
The Nazi party in that last relatively free 1933 election had to form a coalition government. None of that meant that they weren’t fascists.
The idea that they don’t really have the immediate majority support of the people is not relevant to the damage that followed. Support can be manufactured by guns and threat of financial and social ruin.
Our democratically elected officials are still voting on bills, and they are still (mostly) being signed off by the president.
The same things were applying at this point in time in Nazi Germany. They just started to do increasingly wild illegal things and had their fire hose of falsehood machines up and running. There were continuous events of large scale that if they occurred on their own would take over news cycles for months, just like are occurring now. Rights were being dismantled just like they are now.
Many things pretty strongly align with the idea that this very well might have been the last fair election.
The FCC did TRY to silence someone, but the will of the people made it not happen.
Did it? or was this, as their strategies have been, to repeatedly do heinous things until they are normalized.
What actually happened here? Rights were flagrantly violated, then they soft backtracked, and then they issued the same threats again (on going) where they will likely backtrack less this time, and so on.
No one was punished. No one is in jail. The people in power then, are still in power now.
I think it’s also just the reasons someone is doing something matters, even if it practically doesn’t.
If it practically doesn’t, it practically doesn’t.
Why did hitler act the way he acted? We aren’t sure, but the results of this unhinged hateful man leading their country became obvious.
Idk man some people myself included like discussing and/or arguing something. A lot of people argue impolitely or misrepresent points, but a huge portion of lemmy users have autism or other neurodivergence, so sometimes they’re not good at picking up nuance or what the other person actually meant. Also, most people in general are tribal so I think what you’re asking for might be impossible on an unrestricted platform.
I have had tons of actually good discussions on lemmy, I can link you some if you want, but it sounds like you’re seeing people say “trump just broke 5 court orders and fired all the judges who disagreed with him, then illegaly sent the national guard to Oregon. This is fascism” and saying “you can’t call everyone you don’t like a fascist!!” Those at least fascist-leaning actions. Do I think it’s actual fascism? No. But all of those actions are the dictionary definition of fascism, so if someone calls someone taking many fascist actions in succession a fascist… idk maybe hyperbole but not that extreme. It’s like calling Bernie sanders a socialist. It’s like well not really but I know what you mean.
I don’t think we can just wipe that turd off onto people with disorders. Most people have it in them to act like animals if they get the right encouragement.
There is also a difference between observing real fascism and talking about that, and then calling everything you don’t like or want to silence, fascist. There’s a very big difference and people should be more careful with words like that and only use them when it is applicable and not use it as a catch all slur. Then it loses its meaning. People on Lemmy use fascism for everything they don’t like. The irony is that some of their own behaviors on this platform has some of the same characteristics as fascism does. Not a one to one, but there certainly isn’t much space for differing opinions and there seem to be a wish for a world where only one set of values is permitted and it should be implemented through violence. That is how a lot of people think on here and I find it amusing that they point the finger at everybody else and any attempt at nuance is met with accusations of fence-sitting. People are very very special on this platform, as they are on every other social media platform.
But let’s not blame people with disorders for a behavior that is a universal trait of human stupidity.
Adhd and autism are only considered disorders in the dsm 5, which there are many papers written about how it’s a failure There’s a reason people call those neurodivergences and not something like schizophrenia.
Sure? But most times I’ve seen someone being rude it’s because they totally missed what the other person is saying. Which is extremely common with autism which is extremely common on lemmy. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong or stupid or smart, that’s just how they interpreted the other persons words. Again not saying there ISN’T groupthink and tribalism, but 95% of the time I’ve said something politely and with evidence I have not been downvoted or removed.
example: (I don’t comment on politics that often)
A websites users downvoting and removing comments is not fascism because a website is not a government, and was not ordered to by the government. If the FCC threatens a broadcasting company because they don’t like what someone said, that IS a fascist action because it’s a government agency threatening a private company for saying something the government agency didn’t like. If the president breaks the law and ignores court orders, that IS a fascist action. Same with firing all judges that don’t agree with the president, same with denying to swear in certain elected officials, that is centralization of power. If someone does 8 by definition fascist things, and someone else does 0, if I call the first person a fascist I’m not calling everything I don’t like fascist, and the word has meaning because those WERE fascist actions. You can say it’s unfair because it’s only 8 fascist actions, but that doesn’t mean they’re calling everyone a fascist, just people who took 8 fascist actions in a row.
Also “I will not tolerate the intolerant” is not the same as “I will not tolerate trans/gay people existing, or people trying to say that’s wrong.” There is space for differing opinions as long as your opinion doesn’t infringe on other people existing. I can say something like I think we should spend more on schools than climate change, but I can’t say I think trans people are fake, or gay people are an abomination, or say climate change is a hoax. Would you prefer a society where an every day conversation is “should nagijala exist? It’s a horrible thing to be one of those people. Truly disgusting, it’s an affront to God.” And you hear that daily and fear for your life? Or allow vaccine misinformation so measles come back like it is in Florida. Personally I don’t want to live in that society. I have also never had my comment deleted and rarely get downvoted, while expressing a different opinion to the majority in almost every comment. I can show examples if you want.
Do you not notice any dissonance here?
I’m not really sure, maybe it’s just the extent or the amount of incompetence that makes it different to me. It’s sort of like fascism-lite, because even if trump WANTS all trans people taken away / treated as undesirables and has caused a lot more people to hate them, he hasn’t been able to enact “if you are trans you will be killed” like I would expect under fascism. I also don’t feel like even the crazy maga people want the democratic party to not exist, they just want democrats to “stop being stupid.”
I was listening to an expert on cults talk about trump and MAGA, and he said trump plays to the crowd rather than saying what he believes. For instance when he said "I hope you’re all vaccinated " in Missouri i believe, the crowd booed him and he quickly changed to “you should have the freedom to choose.” I think narcissistic con man fits everything he does more accurately than fascist, but still that’s why when someone calls him a fascist I don’t really complain.
Im sorry but what???
Do you think the Nazis were killing jews on day one? Fascism doesn’t only become fascism once they’ve done the big bad thing and the credits are rolling. It w was still fascism way before the gas chambers were spooled up.
By all accounts, the progress of their team this term has been faster than hitlers rise to power. There isn’t really any reason to just assume it will stop itself when hes been able to bounce off any sort of semblance of consequences for his actions thus far.
Thats most politicians to some degree and something hitler also did, like where he co-opted various labels to dismantle them.
I’m not sure I see the reasoning to think it can’t be both.
I mean I really don’t really disagree it just doesn’t feel exactly right to call it that, I guess I can give some reasons for it. For instance only about 35% of the population even voted for Trump, so he doesn’t really have the support of the people. Our democratically elected officials are still voting on bills, and they are still (mostly) being signed off by the president. The FCC did TRY to silence someone, but the will of the people made it not happen. They do try and suppress protestors from speaking against the government, but it’s been largely pretty ineffective, minus the random brutality.
I think it’s also just the reasons someone is doing something matters, even if it practically doesn’t. If trump fires all the judges that disagree with him and appoints people that agree with him, the reason is narcissism and hurt ego, and the effects are fascist. Which is why I would say fascist actions rather than a fascist, which might be a meaningless distinction but to some it’s not.
The Nazi party got 43% of the votes the election before secondary parties were banned. They had 88% turnout. This means they had 37.8% of the population vote for them.
Its extremely common for people to really, out of an excess of optimism and fear hope that clearly the nazis were so obviously different, but that wasn’t the case.
The Nazi party in that last relatively free 1933 election had to form a coalition government. None of that meant that they weren’t fascists.
The idea that they don’t really have the immediate majority support of the people is not relevant to the damage that followed. Support can be manufactured by guns and threat of financial and social ruin.
The same things were applying at this point in time in Nazi Germany. They just started to do increasingly wild illegal things and had their fire hose of falsehood machines up and running. There were continuous events of large scale that if they occurred on their own would take over news cycles for months, just like are occurring now. Rights were being dismantled just like they are now.
Many things pretty strongly align with the idea that this very well might have been the last fair election.
Did it? or was this, as their strategies have been, to repeatedly do heinous things until they are normalized.
What actually happened here? Rights were flagrantly violated, then they soft backtracked, and then they issued the same threats again (on going) where they will likely backtrack less this time, and so on.
No one was punished. No one is in jail. The people in power then, are still in power now.
If it practically doesn’t, it practically doesn’t.
Why did hitler act the way he acted? We aren’t sure, but the results of this unhinged hateful man leading their country became obvious.