Lets be clear though, reddit is only worse than lemmy because it is centralized by one group of douchebags.
Lemmy has plenty of shitty moderation too, and arguably is worse at dealing with it within any given instance due to the lack of proper mod tools, the way posts that are deleted remove entire comment sections from being accessible, the lack of any appeals system and I’m sure a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.
Its a people problem, and its a style of organization problem with this style of forum.
Oh absolutely. Not long after I created my account, I saw an obvious spam post on All, I downvoted it and went about my day. Turns out I was banned from that community because of that downvote. I asked why and was told that because I downvoted a post in a community I wasn’t subbed to, I was banned for “brigading” even though it was a spam post. I wonder if I had upvoted despite not being a community member if I would have been banned?
More recently, I reported a comment for a common ableist slur (against someone else, not me), and the reply to the report was “doesn’t break the community rules and also we agree with the guy who said it”. I looked up their community rules and they specifically say all opinions are welcome and not to attack or harass others, which I would presume calling someone the “R” word for having an opinion would violate both tenets of that rule set. Nope, they support garbage like that despite what their rules say, so I told them to please ban me.
reddit is only worse than lemmy because it is centralized by one group of douchebags
That’s a really big distinguishing factor though. When a group gets “too big to fail,” it becomes a problem by giving said group too much control. Look at the genocide apologist mods on /r/worldnews .
The de-centralization / fragmentation of Lemmy is an important check against bad moderation.
You absolutely bring up good points yes, but at the same time, I don’t think its a check, so much as a mild mitigation. Even on the lemmy verse there are still mega subs that take on the most activity and gain similar types of “too big to fail” critical user bases.
The core problem, is that when a group gains disproportionate control over what users can see, they can push their views/twist arms, and that ultimately isn’t solved here.
I agree. Lemmy has a ton of awful moderators that abuse their power just to support “their” viewpoint.
Lemmy is better though because it at least has the potential for people to have better moderation, as well as a modlog that keeps mods somewhat accountable and let’s people see what is being censored.
as well as a modlog that keeps mods somewhat accountable and let’s people see what is being censored.
I’m not sure if this is still true, but you can get around that though if you ban the person before removing the comment. Also, some communities have a delay on showing what’s been removed.
I agree. Lemmy has a ton of awful moderators that abuse their power just to support “their” viewpoint.
Indeed. Famously the elephant in the room of the ml instance where they’re gone so far off the deep end on a lot of topics that they end up in essence supporting extremist conservative views/human rights abuses and worse. This is either with direct support with the weird straight up dictatorship praises many sing, being so toxic and hard to talk to that they push people away (who I hope know they certainly aren’t the average left leaning person) or the awful thing many do where they feel any incremental positive change is bad, and the only good change is a magic overnight revolution and shift to 100% exactly their view of how society should work, that they’ll also never spell out.
Lemmy is better though because it at least has the potential for people to have better moderation
In some ways yes, in some ways the opposite (as mentioned with the lack of tools).
Regarding the modlog, maybe I am missing something, but when things are deleted here, its actually a little bit worse than reddit sometimes in that you won’t be able to immediately see the content that was deleted of yours, and then for mod logs, I believe (As I am not 100% sure) that comment removals disappear when the user who made the comment is banned as well, so its kinda false transparency.
Fuck reddit, and fuck censorship.
Lets be clear though, reddit is only worse than lemmy because it is centralized by one group of douchebags.
Lemmy has plenty of shitty moderation too, and arguably is worse at dealing with it within any given instance due to the lack of proper mod tools, the way posts that are deleted remove entire comment sections from being accessible, the lack of any appeals system and I’m sure a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.
Its a people problem, and its a style of organization problem with this style of forum.
Oh absolutely. Not long after I created my account, I saw an obvious spam post on All, I downvoted it and went about my day. Turns out I was banned from that community because of that downvote. I asked why and was told that because I downvoted a post in a community I wasn’t subbed to, I was banned for “brigading” even though it was a spam post. I wonder if I had upvoted despite not being a community member if I would have been banned?
More recently, I reported a comment for a common ableist slur (against someone else, not me), and the reply to the report was “doesn’t break the community rules and also we agree with the guy who said it”. I looked up their community rules and they specifically say all opinions are welcome and not to attack or harass others, which I would presume calling someone the “R” word for having an opinion would violate both tenets of that rule set. Nope, they support garbage like that despite what their rules say, so I told them to please ban me.
That’s a really big distinguishing factor though. When a group gets “too big to fail,” it becomes a problem by giving said group too much control. Look at the genocide apologist mods on /r/worldnews .
The de-centralization / fragmentation of Lemmy is an important check against bad moderation.
You absolutely bring up good points yes, but at the same time, I don’t think its a check, so much as a mild mitigation. Even on the lemmy verse there are still mega subs that take on the most activity and gain similar types of “too big to fail” critical user bases.
The core problem, is that when a group gains disproportionate control over what users can see, they can push their views/twist arms, and that ultimately isn’t solved here.
Which lemmy mitigates by being decentralized.
I agree. Lemmy has a ton of awful moderators that abuse their power just to support “their” viewpoint.
Lemmy is better though because it at least has the potential for people to have better moderation, as well as a modlog that keeps mods somewhat accountable and let’s people see what is being censored.
I’m not sure if this is still true, but you can get around that though if you ban the person before removing the comment. Also, some communities have a delay on showing what’s been removed.
Indeed. Famously the elephant in the room of the ml instance where they’re gone so far off the deep end on a lot of topics that they end up in essence supporting extremist conservative views/human rights abuses and worse. This is either with direct support with the weird straight up dictatorship praises many sing, being so toxic and hard to talk to that they push people away (who I hope know they certainly aren’t the average left leaning person) or the awful thing many do where they feel any incremental positive change is bad, and the only good change is a magic overnight revolution and shift to 100% exactly their view of how society should work, that they’ll also never spell out.
In some ways yes, in some ways the opposite (as mentioned with the lack of tools).
Regarding the modlog, maybe I am missing something, but when things are deleted here, its actually a little bit worse than reddit sometimes in that you won’t be able to immediately see the content that was deleted of yours, and then for mod logs, I believe (As I am not 100% sure) that comment removals disappear when the user who made the comment is banned as well, so its kinda false transparency.