Unfortunately not Open Source: https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE
I’ll keep using NewPipe. Their software seems neat, I’ll happly pay for it, but no way I’ll do if there is licence like that.
Edit: They say the licence is only temporary. Let’s keep an eye which one they’ll choose later.
Louis explains the license in the video. You can fork it and modify it, but if you fill it up with ads, spyware, malware etc., they fill fuck you.
That’s their goal. They have good intentions. But it also means no commercial use.
You can’t do “Hey, can you add this feature to this app, I’ll pay you” or “Here is much improved version you can buy from me” or “We give you paid support and help for this software for your company”. Eventually all improvements bounce back to original creators anyway, see: vital paid Wordpress theme ecosystem, most of them being GPL licenced.
With project getting bigger such restriction can be almost as bad as with propietary app. Like, imagine Linux kernel but only with Linus Torvalds having right to sell computers with it or offer any services making money.
You can not modify the source code.
you are not entitled to use or do anything with the code for any commercial or other purpose, other than review, compilation and non-commercial distribution in accordance with the terms of this license.
“review” means to access, analyse, test and otherwise review the code as a reference, for the sole purpose of analysing it for defects.
doesn’t it allow compilation and non-commercial distribution? I don’t agree with the license (not free or open source), but I’m genuinely curious on what specifically doesn’t allow source code modification.
It does allow compilation and non-commercial distribution, as per the terms my comment above. If you’re curious as to what disallows source code modifications, that is also contained in the terms included in my comment above.
ah, I see. thanks
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He accidentally sent people to a Newpipe clone once and that’s why they should have the right to kill your license at any point in time for any reason or no reason at all.
That’s only half the reason, let’s not forget opposition lobbyists abusing unidentified loopholes in his initial R2R drafts, which are very costly to rectify later both time wise and monetary wise, even if at all possible. The mindset of companies screwing with you is probably not something that is easy to shake off, especially encountering it each day fighting serialisation and other rubbish just to repair someones macbook.
While not ideal, I respect his decision taken with the license chosen, even if it’s against the spirit of what most people consider to be open source.
The organisation behind the app, FUTO, wants to take control back from companies and put into the hands of people, and while we can make the argument that FUTO are being hypocritical by keeping the keys to the castle per se, they have delivered an app that puts control back in our hands - removing the need to have a separate youtube, patreon, nebula and soundcloud app, alongside others, where you can follow individual creators easier on the platforms where you financially support them.
It won’t appeal to people who just want to watch YouTube without ads (go NewPipe, Revanced etc…) or staunch FOSS supporters, both of which are seeking other ideals from their media consumption apps of choice.
The kind of people who will be using this app the most right now IMO will be Nebula and Patreon users, this app is like a dream come true compared to the official ones
The Patreon integration seems to be broken, but it’s alpha software so I can’t blame them. The UI seems to be a lot better than a lot of alternative clients, including Newpipe.
I get his “down with the corporations” stance, but AGPL + basic copyright law will scare away the corpos just as easily, without limiting user freedom. The plugins for third party platforms all seem to be GPLv3 licensed, so they do know about better licenses (though I’m guessing that’s just to comply with some GPL dependency they use to access Youtube).
Netflix isn’t going to release something that they have to publish ALL code for, including their DRM library. AGPL is to corporations like garlic is to vampires, it scares away all the big ones and only leaves the ones that weren’t going to care about your silly little license anyway. Google famously bans all use of AGPL tools internally. However, good luck getting Tencent China to pay you a dime when they steal your code, or going after Huawei when they fork the project and stuff it full of CCP spyware.
Google famously bans all use of AGPL tools internally.
Wow, TIL. That is pretty heavy handed…
The thing is that AGPL is also viral to network services. If a piece of AGPL makes it into the code that renders the Google homepage, they’re technically obliged to hand over the source code to the entirety of the software that piece of software is included in, just because AGPL code generated the HTML.
The risks don’t outweigh the benefits, Google concludes. I think that proves the effectiveness of AGPL as a way to scare of big corporations more than anything.
Technically open source in what definition? Not by Open Source Initiative definition (https://opensource.org/osd/), not in Wikipedia’s definition (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source)…
Public code on GitLab does not mean open source in the same way public video on YouTube does not mean Creative Commons.
The GNU definition. I don’t think the majority sticks to their definitions, but there is no “official” definition for it by any measure. On the other hand the internet also struggles to understand that “open source” does not equal “open governance” whenever open source projects are selective in contributions from outside contributors, let alone understanding how the right combination of patents can make an open source project entirely useless for anything more than a hobby project.
While most people follow the Netscape/OSI definition, GNU has basically started the modern open source movement, finding its earliest origins in Stallman being annoyed that he couldn’t add the fonts of his choice to a Xerox printer.
Open source, in its lightest form, means the source is open, with no further implications. Free software (not free as in beer, obviously) is what people expect when they hear “open source”. Free, open-source software (FOSS) is what the OSI has rebranded into “open source”, but the OSI interpretation is not universal. Even with FOSS software, people heavily debate whether or not you’re allowed to sell FOSS software (you actually can, even with GPL, even if you didn’t write most of it, but people get hung up on “free”).
Technically open source in what definition?
By the literal definition of source code that is open.
But what it mean to be open?
Have you heard of “open” culture or “open” standard that is free to use unless we don’t allow you to?
There is a difference between open source and source available…
I sympathise with his reasoning for the license but still, that sucks.
I think I’ll try it anyway, though. It’s trying to solve a real issue.
Quite unfortunate.
Quite informative. Quite unfortunate.
Is there any way to view live content in New pipe? I love watching the young Turks when it’s on, but I have to use the YouTube app because I cannot figure out how to watch a live broadcast in new pipe.
Better revanced = NewPipe
No algorithms, no Google tracking
User experience Newpipe is absolute trash
It plays videos fine?
i would use directly my phone’s video player if it was what i used youtube for.
I thought youtube is about playing videos 🤷♂️
ye but it has an home page where u can discover a lot of videos that aren’t from what u subscribed. also i don’t want to see EVERY video from the channels i’m subbed to
it’s getting a rewrite/large modifications to the code
Not wrong but it functions the best of them all and is the most reliable. I like LibreTube, but it’ll stop working a lot for me when NewPipe never fails. I just wish I could get my YouTube front page and recommended on there, I like my algos.
I personally find LibreTube even better, since it syncs with your Piped account.
And it doesn’t connect directly to google servers, so google doesn’t see your ip. Also, unlike the base-version of Newpipe it has sponsorblock and return youtube dislike baked in. There’s a fork that adds those back in, though.
Only drawback is that LibreTubes app is less mature. Looks sexy, but it doesn’t work that great on tablets, for example. Also the instances aren’t always online, or that fast, so sometimes viewing videos on libretube might be a struggle
But you cant cast videos to SmartTube with it. So i think Revanced has the better versatility.
Yeah I’d rather not give all my details for multiple sites to one site…regardless of who’s doing it.
Well actually, your login info never goes to them at all. You log into the sites directly in a webview and it uses the cookie to sync your subs and recommendations locally on your device.
You took the words out of my mouth. I don’t even know who this guy is really, I’ve seen some of his videos, but having access to all of your account stuff is… nah
A 300MB apk file? It is on Google Play. No F(L)OSS license. Other apps by the same developer (futo) seem to contain no trackers. Probably nothing to worry about, but how many video platforms does the average person use? I look at YT and a small handful of peertube instances.
Other apps by the same developer (futo) seem to contain no trackers
FUTO is an organisation that wholly sponsors developers to make source-available, privacy respecting apps. They do other stuff too, but mainly this.
Like Shark Tank or Dragons Den, but for developers
Neat. TIL.
You are trying to download the universal app that contains multi archs libraries. Try to download a specific arch for your device like arm v7 or arm v8. That’s half the size. The Play Store build is even more optimized at 41mb.
Edit: the version listed on their website has more sources compared to playstore which is bland. I would get the site version if I were you.
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Ironic.
Y’all are ignoring what this actually is - an app for EVERY video platform. Also, restrictive license is fine as long as the source code is available. Rossman explains this is to keep people from just forking and making scam versions of the app like NewPipe sees.
A lot of the people complaining about the license don’t get this. Also doubly surprised at those saying they won’t use it because the license doesn’t allow them to redistribute the app with malware, or charge money for it 🤦♂️
I’m also completely baffled at the amount of people here who have never heard of Louis Rossmann… literally the dude behind Right to Repair
saying they won’t use it because the license doesn’t allow them to redistribute the app with malware, or charge money for it
They won’t use it because the licence creates an inbalance of power, so the creator of the app have more control than the actual user. An app/program is just an set of instructions how to do something.
Why not charge for it? If you just copied and not make anything new noone is going to give you money anyway, while taking something and selling after improvements is literally how all buissness always worked. Maybe except mining or haunting.
As for malware, I bet creator of malware won’t be suddenly stopped by a licence text.
They won’t use it because the licence creates an inbalance of power, so the creator of the app have more control than the actual user. An app/program is just an set of instructions how to do something.
A user is not affected at all by the license IMO, unless they intend to redistribute the app or code, although I do see where you are coming from with the imbalance of power thing
Why not charge for it? If you just copied and not make anything new noone is going to give you money anyway
Chinese clones do this all the time to all sorts of products, and they sell very very well. This even happened to Prusa, the 3D printer manufacturer. Their OSS firmware is being used in clones sold on Aliexpress for half the price
taking something and selling after improvements is literally how all buissness always worked
I agree. I’d rather give the original creator money if the person reselling/redistributing isn’t adding tangible value to the product or app, but in most cases (except the clone example above) people tend to add value, like yt-dlp adding a TON of extractors, or NewPipe SponsorBlock integrating a bunch of new features
As for malware, I bet creator of malware won’t be suddenly stopped by a licence text.
The community would also make it pretty well known that a malware ridden version of the app is floating around IMO, rendering it useless. And there’s also Play Protect which deletes apps it doesn’t like from devices without asking the user, like it did for legitimate copies of KDE Connect that were installed from outside the Play Store
Yeah, I agree.
My point of view is from being interested in CS, math and overall collective making. I just love computers and want them to be accessible from the bottom as a matter of principle. So I’ll wait until open source app arrive (or they change licence), because I don’t need them as much. But for people that needs apps like those developed by FUTO, it’s a huge success they can avoid Google.
It doesn’t have TikTok as a source yet, but I’m hopeful that they will in the future.
The app needs two things: YouTube SponsorBlock, and the ability to tag creators and filter by tag/interest. I’m really hopeful they add those two things, and I’d be a convert.
Oh and an android TV version while you’re at it ^^
Oh and an android TV version while you’re at it
It could hardly get better than SmartTubeNext.
SmartTube is the shizz on TV.
If only it could talk to my Piped server, it’d be perfect.
I will keep a eye on it but till the license changes I will stick with my tried and true Newpipe and Libretube apps. Both of those are “improved revanced” to me already but the idea of multiple sources is a cool one, not new but certainly cool and I haven’t seen Nebula in other attempts but I just wish people could agree on a addon standard to implement services for various of those apps and media centers at once!
Can you cast videos to SmartTube/TV?
That’s the thing im missing from those apps and it seems its not possible.
You can, I do it every week. Just link your TV to your phones YouTube app and cast.
That’s something I am also very much interested in but I haven’t looked it up or tried yet so no clue!
Does LibreTube still work for you?
Mine wasn’t for a while then I realised the other say the v0.19 was available on the izzydroid repo but not yet on fdroid and that resolved some issues for me
Thank you so much!
It uses Piped servers to proxie the videos which hide your IP address but those servers are run by volunteers and aren’t always perfect so it’s more of a hit or miss but if one doesn’t work I usually switch and doing that between kavin.rocks, libre.kavin.rocks and adminforge.de usually works very well for me, I just wish there was a proper way to store my subscriptions locally beside not using a Piped account at all!
Yeah, I know those things. But the App crashed constantly, only working for one video or two if I was lucky.
Updating solved the issue.
Yea, it’s crashy enough already but one of the last few updates was a fucking mess!
Brand new alpha video player app already has background play, Floatplane devs in shambles
dope app
Love the aggregation idea! Gonna check back onto it after some months, until then I’m sticking with good ol’ Revanced.
Neat idea. I’m going to watch how this develops but I don’t see it ever becoming much of a thing until there is iOS support. I’m not an iPhone user. Just realistic.
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Third party frontends of all kinds are forbidden on the Play and App store but we Android users have F-Droid and if the license is changed at some point (it’s supposed to be temporary as far as I understand) it will probably land there, till then Obtanium is probably your best bet I guess.
It is on the Google Play Store.
Very interesting, I doubt it’s going to stay there long because this is literally the first third party frontend of all kinds I as privacy enthusiast have ever seen accepted and I really wonder how they did that!
Almost no third party frontend supports iOS because of their absolutely shitty sideloading limitations and they still work great…
This is something I always wonder about—is there a good source for realistic market share of mobile os?
While 0,36% doesn’t sound very high, I’m surprised that so many people are using Tizen. That’s like one of every ~330 devicds
These could be a mix of smart watches, cheap phones, and maybe house appliances like smart TVs.
Interesting, thanks for the share!
Wild, so understandably android is a much greater share, given the wide variety of phones it can run on… I’m guessing iOS is a favored app market because it’s more monolithic or stable? Or put another way the android share is fragmented all over the place?
iOS also has a far better ratio in the western world, which I guess helps
Mainly just the USA from looking at that really.
Also iOS users spend more money on average.
And if it ever gains much popularity, Youtube will find ways to break its ability to source videos from their platform.
I use inotia00’s version of ReVanced, ReVanced Extended. It adds way more options for fine tuning
Something about Louis just strikes me as extremely untrustworthy. I’m not sure what it is, but it’s definitely there.
everything I’ve ever seen about the guy is legit. he works for consumer rights, if you want untrustworthy look at Apple.
New York accent? I’ve occasionally watched his videos for years, and he seems to be a decent guy. He may be an asshole IRL for all I know, but generally supports stuff like right to repair, privacy, ad-blockers, etc. He’s a business owner, so he’s pro-business biased when consumers aren’t being completely shafted. He’s YouTuber, so he likely has narcissistic tendencies.
Met him IRL. Super nice, but he’s got a hard edge which might put people off.
He might come off as edgy but honestly he’s one of the few people I trust online. Dude did amaizing stuff with right to repair stuff too.
This idea has definitely been tried before and has consistently failed
I love it… but honestly, i spend 99% of my time on desktop, so this just doesn’t help me.
