Slightly OT, but this is also why we absolutely need ranked voting ASAP. How much better would a candidate like Sanders do if people knew that voting for him as first choice and Biden as second was possible?
Ranked choice isn’t that much better. It is better, but very slightly. We need to implement STAR, which is vastly better even at its worst. Essentially, it’s just a 0-5 vote for candidates, and any empty is a 0. It allows you to rank some at the same and then some as “better than nothing” leading to a well rounded choice that most people approve of.
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Or, you could support candidates that support racked choice voting (who are mostly liberals). That sort of thing happens locally and at the state level.
People love ranked choice voting but not whats involved with getting it instituted.
Can you elaborate?
Voting for candidates that support it.
Here’s an interesting anecdote. The people of Shelby County, TN elected to enact ranked choice voting in the county (it was a ballot option 2 elections ago). It hasn’t been signed into law yet.
So at least in this case, I’d say the problem isn’t people not voting, it’s nefarious agents succeeding in subverting the feeble democratic processes in this country to act against the people’s interest.
This is the same tired line we have to hear every 4 years. It’s been a substitute for concrete policy and it’s gotten all of us nowhere.
Did he deliver on everything? Of course not, campaign promises are as much aspirational as anything. But speaking of concrete, he was part of the badly needed infrastructure package, which had reached the point of a joke under the Trump administration (infrastructure week!)
The issue with Biden is that he represents the greater issue with having different flavors of Capitalist parties, and nothing else, within American electoralism.
Leftists will never be able to be satisfied with a lukewarm liberal president, whereas fascists get to gleefully vote republican and have their views validated.
As such, elections are a matter of harm reduction for leftists, while meaningful change must be done at the grassroots level.
Actually, as a leftist, I’d say Dark Brandon has been one of the best POTUSes in recent memory. Just like Obama though, Biden has a Senate that actively shuts down most of his bills. People seem to still operate on this assumption that the Executive branch is a dictatorship.
Yes and no.
Better than recent presidents? Yes. Actually a leftist? No, Biden is far from actually being a leftist. This more points to electoralism being harm reduction for leftists, not advocacy.
The executive isn’t a dictatorship, and that’s another reason why meaningful change must happen at the grassroots level, not via electoralism. The system itself is designed to be extremely stable, and thus slow to change, if at all.
Weird, I was sold almost the exact same line in 2020.
It’s almost like the same totalitarian is running on the GOP ticket.
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You don’t remember January 6th?
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You mean you are on Lemmy and haven’t heard of Project 2025? Brother. You have some reading to do.
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It’s almost like he already won in 2016 and lo and behold, we can still vote again 4 years later.
You mustn’t have paid any attention to his barrage of executive orders and insanely corrupt appointments. The Supreme Court nominations alone are more than eyebrow raising.
It wasn’t for lack of him trying though
This is so dumb. He didn’t try to not let people vote. Every loser every year claims recounts are needed, they just usually don’t use the system to try and prove it. He’s using the system to try and prove it. The system is there for a reason
Stop trying to claim he’s stopping people from voting.
He claimed 3 million illegal votes during an election he won. 3 million… then what did he do once becoming president after an accusation of the largest voter fraud claim for a democracy in history? Nothing. Barely mentioned it. No enormous investigation to arrest the thousands of people that would have needed to be involved to coordinate 3 million illegal votes. Nothing. Why? Because it was just something for him to say off the cuff. He took a page from his hero Roy Cohn to just declare victory even when defeated. Lose a case? Just claim victory. Lose a popular vote count? Just claim victory. He has done it all his life and doesn’t care how easily it is for some people to believe his off-the-cuff lies even when they can threaten democracy itself. He will never concede a loss and doesn’t care who it hurts. He will also never have the evidence for his claims because he doesn’t need any.
2016 was their learning period.
Annnd thennnnnn… what happened on Jan 6th?
Did something change since 2020?
And then they actually tried to do exactly what the meme predicts. We are just lucky that the magas were too stupid
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I don’t know much about US politics, but is Biden the only choice you have besides voting for Trump? There’s zero alternatives? I’ve seen in the comments that people prefer Biden to other democrat candidates, because he already beat Trump already, so it has better chances to beat him again. But realistically, it seems like everyone hates Trump with a burning passion, so any Democrat that is not batshit insane and totally incompetent would beat him, right? Seems like an easy win.
So what you’re talking about is a primary contender from the democratic party, but generally the incumbent party doesn’t have a primary for the president. Your only real options are the Democrat (Biden, unless he dies), or the Republican (looking like Trump, but they will have a primary). You can vote for other people, but it doesn’t do anything. You might as well try to get the better option than choosing not to vote out of spite, and getting whatever happens regardless.
looking like Trump, but they will have a primary
Or unless he dies. He’s basically the same age as Biden and unlike Biden hasn’t taken care of himself.
Yeah, totally an option, or he is found guilty of treason or some other disqualifying thing. I was just pointing out that Republicans do have a primary this election for president, so there are more options for them.
Yeah, there just seems to be this meme of “Biden, old man, about to die” that never gets applied to Trump.
Probably because of how hard right-wing media has pushed it. Though him being old as fuck perpetuated it after that ofc.
It’s still ridiculous that it isn’t applied to Trump as often (or more), the dude eats so much Mcdonalds and looks super unhealthy.
There’s zero alternatives?
Well, no, but actually yes.
Legend tells that the primaries are where the vote for your candidate of choice actually counts, but as 2016 showed, they are allowed to and will happpily ignore it in favor of the party’s selected ghoul.
So, yeah, it’s a pick between the mostly bad and the completely utterly awful.
Correct. That’s how a 2 party system works. You vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
The opinion of the masses is never reflected in our government.
Does your politics begin and end at participating in sham elections? Why aren’t you encouraging people to take meaningful political action?
Imagine being Russian and the extent of your political activism is encouraging people to vote Putin out.
That’s how ridiculous you are.
You have a laughably erroneous perspective on the matter. This isn’t Russia my guy.
You do realize your comment is just “You’re wrong!” with more flowery language right?
What meaningful political action do you propose?
We literally do not live in a democracy according to a bunch of empirical studies, and also according to basic material analysis.
As far as I know, there is one study, and even that is under dispute on secondary analysis of the underlying data.
Okay, now analyze how public opinion is formed and who owns the mechanisms that form it
Once upon a time that would have been a simple answer, given the concentrated ownership of news that could reach any one person. But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
But now with the Internet, there is less and less control by any one group. Certainly the age of the rich effectively controlling the media is over.
Pr teams have successfully learned how to use social media, and social media giants promote views that are beneficial to them like fascism while suppressing left wing content.
I dont think the internet existing makes us a democracy, the parasocial nature of a lot of internet content actually makes it so people are more able to sell their propaganda.
There is plenty of media that exists outside of media giants. Case in point, there is a local blogger here in Portland, OR that runs bikeportland.org to cover bikes and related subjects. His blog posts and discussions on them are a major part of the local discourse around infrastructure in Portland. He’s not rich, but he exercises influence.
Okay, but you do see how thats pretty boutique compared to the local news channels, let alone the giants, right?
Small things are allowed to exist that oppose the dominant ideology until they meaningfully threaten it.
Any grassroots media is going to be “boutique”. That doesn’t make it not influential, especially when considered as a whole.
Still a democracy though.
A Sham democracy.
If the bourgeoisie decide elections through lobbying and media it isnt a democracy in a meaningful sense.
They don’t exactly decide, they influence the decision. Why don’t you votee that for their goals?
They don’t exactly decide, they influence the decision.
“The didn’t do that, they just did something that will predictably result in that”
It doesn’t work perfectly and humanity pushes back over time. The issue is the pace of technology is too fast for our ability to push back. I’m hopeful our good side will win but I’m afraid it will take deaths by the millions again for people to wake up and fight back against the real enemies among us.
We live in a republic democracy which, yes, differs from an outright democracy.
We do not live in a republic democracy, we live in a republic dictatorship of capital.
This is just untrue though.
This is just untrue though
You just can’t reconcile the fact people don’t vote how you want, therefore the system must be broken. And spreading voting apathy by telling people it’s all bullshit is one of the most damaging things you could do to your democracy. You’re better for Trump than most Republicans.
You just can’t reconcile the fact people don’t vote how you want, therefore the system must be broken.
You just can’t reconcile that your high school civics textbook lied about how the US operates.
This was the same promise in 2020. And yet here we are. Democrats should have done better than beg to save democracy one more time.
Not only that but what is Biden going to do for climate in the next 4 years? Like really… He sucks
More than what Trump will do.
Banning gas cars and giving more funds for green energy. Meanwhile orange man wants to increase the usage of fossil fuels. Could be more but could also be less.
He’s still the best option as sad as that is
Revolution is the best option.
You don’t vote for a revolution
Wow really
Cool, I’m sure the government’s predator drones are just itching for some action.
Difficult does not mean not necessary.
Besides, the US military lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam, they have no hope of winning a domestic counterinsurgency of sufficient scale.
Good luck with that.
Yes, if you want to make sure a ton of vulnerable people suffer and then we risk ending up with fascists in charge anyway.
Ok well this rage comic has really opened my eyes.
They’re already in charge. We’ve got two capitalist parties. Republicans back fascists domestically. Democrats back fascists internationally. The people who own the country won’t allow us to vote away their power, we need to start talking about effective activism. Every year we wait causes massive suffering across the world.
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The new existence of this fringe took everyone left of Lindsey Graham by surprise in 2016. It’s not conspiracies all the way down. These people exist and the sooner we realize the center is not where we imagined it was the sooner we can get on with governing and protecting the whole country and not just the little blue parts that like us.
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I don’t disagree with that, all I’m saying is almost 50% of America really is ready to risk tearing it all down and the truth is only a small number of them would be willing to vote Democrat under any circumstances. For both Democrats and center Republicans, divide and conquer seems the only available strategy. A true third party is the hope of many, but I don’t think they could be left of Biden, and the space on the right is a madhouse. They’d have to basically fall from space in a shower of glory to cut through the mud at this point
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I don’t blame you. I agree neither party really wants the things I think we desperately need.
Hell, a Democrat published a book a few years ago about how she did exactly that to win an election. And then she lost to that same nutjob in the very next election!
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Yeah but we don’t have to eat shit to survive do we? So why the fuck are we acting like Biden was our only choice. What kind of stupid analogy is this?
Oh, I’m sure they would still hold elections. But your options would be even more limited. “Sorry, but the other parties just didn’t run any candidates for this election. Imagine that.”
That’s why these scare tactics are probably going to backfire. The kinds of people who would consider voting for Trump are largely the kinds of people who will continue to have just as much opportunity to vote.
Trump’s team would definitely make it harder for black people to vote. His people would find a way to disenfranchise women. His team will probably find a way to block certain candidates, but there will still be Republican primaries, and then people will still get to vote for the Republican and against the token Democrat.
White rural males would still be allowed to vote. That’s both because they vote for the “right people”, so it’s safe to let them keep voting. The Trump team could also continue to point to them and claim that US democracy is strong. And, it’s important that those people continue to believe that under Trump democracy still exists, because white male urban voters will turn on Trump if they think he’s taking away their rights.
News Flash: We are already there in a lot of districts and the entrenched Capitalist parties like it that way. Maybe stop voting for them? It’s the least you can do.
Your democracy has bugs…
Man the Democratic Party this election cycle has just been working overtime to invite the conversational wedge between ‘saving american democracy from fascism’ and ‘voting against Trump.’
I guess that’s what the donor class wants this time: “Do nothing but vote.”
If Trump wanted to get rid of voting, why didn’t he do so last time? How about we just get better security at the capitol, and eliminate whatever loophole he was trying to use in the insurrection?
That’s whats the coup attempt was for, as well as the attempts to override or stop polls from counting the votes across the country. Just because he failed this time doesn’t mean it won’t happen again. Hitler was democratically elected after becoming famous for the book he wrote in jail after being arrested during the Nazi’s first failed coup attempt, Mein Kampf. He then consolidated political power into a new position with the support of party members who were elected to key positions, and he then appointed himself to that new position. Same as what has happened in many other countries. A few crazies in the right seats. The Nazi party only made up 13% of the German population at its height. That’s all it takes.
This is the only argument left for Democrats.
More like “It doesn’t matter how you vote, the evil party is going to win because the slightly-less-evil party just lost a large chunk of their voter base because funding a ethnic genocide in the middle east was a hill they were dying on”
Do your part by voting for the slightly less shit party, but don’t be surprised when it happens anyway, they’re counting on it. They want it. Whenever they need to do something evil they can just throw the election so the republicans can take the hit for them, just like every time.
STOP VOTING FOR GENOCIDE YOU FUCKING GHOUL. It’s not hard.
Buy guns. No matter who wins, you may need them.
Arm yourself and your community.
Incorrect, Vote 3rd party and make a difference.
Trump would love for you to vote 3rd party or not vote.
The Electoral College is set up to benefit conservatives and no change.
A third party in a first past the post system is a waste. You may as well not vote
Believing the MSM is see.
Here’s a really simple video explaining why in a first past the post system voting for a third party is the worst thing you can do as you will only harm the larger party that you are most aligned with https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=W8hd2GZCL15L6KU7
I’ll check it out now.
Ok, the problem I see is that Turtle, Snake, Owl, etc. seem to be only worried about being on the “winning” side regardless if the candidate is against their values. They’ve also been victims of Political Propaganda (Negative ads). Each time they vote for the Lesser of Two Evils they are giving conceding a little more and more each time. Get rid of Gerrymandering and replace it with Ranked Choice Voting to eliminate the “Spoiler Effect.” Vote with you conscious and not your desire to Win.
Yes, IF it is a Ranked Choice election great idea to for the party you most align with. If it’s a first past the post election, it’s really bad idea (unless you align most with a party that can win).
100% agree that ranked voting/proportional representation is a much better option. The problem with FPTP is you have to keep picking the lesser evil or the greater evil wins. It’s a bad system, I’m lucky in a country that doesn’t use FPTP
Incorrect, stop worrying about being on the winning side. Vote with your values. Then if it all burns down you can take solace in the fact you voted correctly according to you. Help educate others on voting for a candidate who will get Government out of your house and wallet, Libertarian candidate. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. The only way out is to vote differently. Get enough people to vote differently and change will come. Voters have been brainwashed into thinking there are only two options.
Libertarian?! Good luck with that. You know what, go ahead. Vote for a third party, I just not sure how you’ll get to a polling station without using the public funded road system, oh well
I don’t know what you mean by this. MSM?
MSM = MainStream Media
Thanks!
Main Stream Media.
there’s a 19yo candidate ? looks like I’m completely out of the loop
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