AI singer-songwriter ‘Anna Indiana’ debuted her first single ‘Betrayed by this Town’ on X, formerly Twitter—and listeners were not too impressed.

  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    There can be nothing new or original out of AI because all of its inputs are stolen from what already exists. Real creativity comes solely from humans. Also, that clip - the song, singing, and visual - is dreadful in every way.

    This needs to be hammered into techbro’s heads until they shut the fuck up about the so-called “AI” revolution.

    • AndrasKrigare@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      I get the sentiment, but don’t really agree. Humans’ inputs are also from what already exists, and music is generally inspired from other music which is why “genres” even exist. AI’s not there yet, but the statement “real creativity comes solely from humans” Needs Citation. Humans are a bunch of chemical reactions and firing synapses, nothing out of the realm of the possible for a computer.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        the statement “real creativity comes solely from humans” Needs Citation.

        Yeah, I’d actually make a more limited statement. Real creativity requires the subjective experience and the ability to generate inputs solely from subjectivity i.e. experience the redness of the color red. AI could definitely do that, which is why LLMs are not AI imo

    • azimir@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I’ve been doing a lot of using, testing, and evaluating LLMs and GPT-style models for generating code and text/prose. Some of it is just general use to see how it behaves, some has been explicit evaluation of creative writing, and a bunch of it is code generation to test out how we need to modify our CS curriculum in light of these new tools.

      It’s an impressive piece of technology, but it’s not very creative. It’s meh. The results are meh. Which is to be expected since it’s a statistical model that’s using a large body of prior work to produce a reasonable approximation of what it’s seen before. It trends towards the mean, not the best.

      • Unaware7013@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        and a bunch of it is code generation to test out how we need to modify our CS curriculum in light of these new tools.

        I’m curious if you’ve gotten anything decent out of them. I’ve tried to use it for tech/code questions, and it’s been nothing but disappointment after disappointment. I’ve tried to use it to get help with new concepts, but it hallucinates like crazy and always give me bad results, some of the time it’s so bad that it gives me answers I’ve already told it we’re wrong.

        • aiccount@monyet.cc
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, I’ve just set up a hotkey that says something like “back up your answer with multiple reputable sources” and I just always paste it at the end of everything I ask. If it can’t find webpages to show me to back up its claims then I can’t trust it. Of course this isn’t the case with coding, for that I can actually run the code to verify it.

      • AgnosticMammal@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        This’d explain why inexperienced users of ai would inevitably get mediocre results. Still takes creativity to get stolen mediocrity.

        • TheMechanic@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          You have to know how to operate the oven to reheat store bought pie. Generative LLMs are machines like ovens, and turning the knobs is not creativity. Not operating the oven correctly gets you Sharon Weiss results.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I’m excited for how these tools will be used by human creators to accomplish things they could never do alone, and in that aspect it is a revolutionary technology. I hate that their marketing calls it “AI” though, the only intelligence involved is the human user that creates prompts and curates results.

    • rynzcycle@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I see it an more an inability to analyze, evaluate, and edit. A lot of “creativity” in the world of musical composition is putting together existing elements and seeing what happens. Any composer from pop to the very avant-garde, is influenced and sometimes even borrow from their predecessors (it’s why copyright law is so complex in music).

      It’s the ability to make judgements, does this sound good/interesting, does this have value, would anyone want to listen to this, and adjust accordingly that will lead to something original and great. Humans are so good at this, we might be making edits before the notes hit the page (Brainstorming). This AI clearly wasn’t. And deciding on value, seems wildly complex for modern day computers. Humans can agree on it (if you like Rock, but hate country for example).

      So in the end, they are “creative” but in a monkey-typewritter situation, but who is going to sort through the billions of songs like this to find the one masterpiece?

      • JWBananas@startrek.website
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        1 year ago

        Plenty of humans make those judgements about their own creations. And plenty of them get a shock when they release their creations to the masses and don’t get the praise that they expected.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I see it an more an inability to analyze, evaluate, and edit.

        I believe that’s vital to the creative process, but yeah, I basically agree.

    • corrupts_absolutely@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      There can be nothing new or original out of AI because all of its inputs are stolen from what already exists. Real creativity comes solely from humans

      what have you seen that wasnt there before
      i mostly have qualms with the quote i have no illusions about the levels of discussions around ai

    • aiccount@monyet.cc
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      Yes, it is literally impossible for any AI to ever exist that can be creative. At no point in the future will it ever create anything creative, that is something only human beings can do. Anybody that doesn’t understand this is simply incapable of using logic and they have no right to contribute to the conversation at all. This has all already been decided by people who understand things really well and anyone who objects is obviously stupid.

      • AndrasKrigare@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Oh shit, I thought you had forgotten a “/s” at the end, but reading your other comments this is actually what you believe and how you talk. So… yeah, I’m not going to take someone who cites “people who understand things really well” as a source at face value.

        • aiccount@monyet.cc
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          1 year ago

          Well then you didn’t read very many of my comments. I made this first comment because the post I responded to was so absurd so I just exaggerated the ridiculousness that they said. Of course AI is capable of creativity and intelligence. If you look at the long back and forth that this sparked you would see that this is my stance. After I made this over the top, very sarcastic comment, OP corrected themself to clarify that when they said “AI” they actually only meant the current state of LLMs. They have since admitted that it is indeed true that AI absolutely can be capable of creativity and intelligence.

          • AndrasKrigare@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            No, I didn’t read the entirety of the comments you’ve made, I read your comment and the one you replied to. As a general rule, I (and I’d assume most people) read down a thread before replying, and don’t first look through all of everyone’s comment histories

            • aiccount@monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              Alright, no big deal. But yeah, your’re gut instinct was correct when you assumed there was a missing /s. I don’t really like the /s that much, especially in situations where it is so obvious.

              If you had read down through this thread first then you would have seen the obviousness of the /s. I don’t think my comment history outside of this thread would have done much since I don’t generally talk about this stuff. I just meant if you had looked more than a couple comments in this particular back and forth discussion.

        • aiccount@monyet.cc
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          1 year ago

          I was agreeing with you. I’m so sick of people thinking that “someday AI might be creative”. Like no, it’s literally impossible unless some day AI becomes human(impossible) because human is the only thing capable of creativity. What have I said that you disagree with? You’re not one of them are you? What’s with all this obsessive AI love?

            • aiccount@monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              Yeah the current popular LLMs, absolutely they are, you couldn’t be more right.

              We were talking about “AI” though. Are you implying that you think some day AI might be capable of creativity, and that creativity isn’t strictly a human trait?

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                I put “AI” in scare quotes specifically because I do not believe we are having an “AI revolution”. These are not AI.

                I think AI can exist but that’s not what we have right now. What we have are jumped up algos that can somewhat fake it.

                • aiccount@monyet.cc
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                  1 year ago

                  Even those future “real” AIs are going to be taking in human input and regurgitating it back to us. The only difference is that the algorithms processing the data will continue to get better and better. There is not some cutoff where we go from 100% unintelligent chatbot to 100% intelligent AI. It is a gradual spectrum.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    I believe a real AI would be able to generate its own inputs without humans to give it input. It would have an actual subjective experience, able to actually imagine new things with zero external inputs. It could experience the redness of the color red.

      • Belgdore@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The anger comes from the fact that companies are using AI instead of hiring artists.

        There is a distinction between a human being inspired by an existing piece of art and an ai creating something from other art. The human has to experience it through the lens of the human experience and create using the human body. AI takes multiple pieces of art and essentially makes a collage.

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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          Eh, humans still take inspiration from others even in their original art. Most professionals draw from reference, or emulate styles, or follow some common method. Drawing from a singular source is ethically questionable, but imitating elements from many sources is just part of the process.

          Arguably, no human creation is purely original, the originality comes from the creativity of the remix.

          • Belgdore@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I’m not arguing for originality. I’m saying that you can have a human connection with a human made piece of art that, by definition, canon exist for AI art.

    • Kbin_space_program@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      It’s not the techbros leading this, it’s the BBAs and MBAs that wouldn’t know art if Michelangelo came to life and slapped them in the face with the sistine chapel.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I would never call an actual technician a techbro! Techbros are Rick&Morty ledditor “fuck yeah science!” dorks.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      Right just as soon as all the people proclaiming that can point to the soul bit of my brain. There is absolutely no reason to say that AI cannot be creative there’s nothing fundamentally magic about creativity that means only humans can do it.

      • TheActualDevil@sffa.community
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        1 year ago

        You’re equating creativity to the soul. They’re not the same thing. But we can definitely look at the brain and see what parts light up when perform creative tasks.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          Right so why can’t the same sections be simulated? If you accept that the human brain is simply an organic implementation of a neural network, then you have to accept that a synthetic implementation can achieve the same thing.

          The idea that the human brain is special is ludicrous and completely without evidence

          • TheActualDevil@sffa.community
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            1 year ago

            I mean, I’m not arguing anything other than your false equivalent. I’m sure, at some point, we’ll be able to mimic how the human brain actually works, not just imitate the results. But we’re not even close right now. Not in the same ball park. Not in the same tri-state area. We still don’t really understand how it does what it does completely. We know some of the processes, and understand that’s it’s chemicals interacting with the meat in some way, but it’s still mostly kinda just weird stuff our body does. We’re mostly just pointing at areas that light up with activity when we do a thing and saying “yep, that’s the general area that’s doing stuff.”

            And that’s just understanding it, let alone figuring out how to imitate it with technology. And none of those parts of the brain work independently. They’re spread out and they overlap and exchange and change information constantly, all with chemicals. Getting a computer to mimic the outcome is still something we’re far from, but without the same processes, its not really gonna come out the same. We’ve got just… so long to go before we actually get close to simulating a human brain.

            And just for fun, I do think this line of yours is funny:

            The idea that the human brain is special is ludicrous and completely without evidence

            Again, I wasn’t saying anything of any sort, and I’m still not really taking any stance beyond “that shits complicated and we’re not there yet.” But you’re supposing that a “synthetic implementation can achieve the same thing.” … without supporting evidence. This argument was clearly meant for someone else, but it’s not really fair to demand evidence from someone for their claim when you don’t support your own. Jumping to the conclusion that something is impossible is the same as assuming it’s definitely possible. You don’t know that. I don’t know that. No one really knows that until it’s done.

      • Mahlzeit@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        The belief that only humans can be creative is interestingly parallel to intelligent design creationism. The latter is fundamentally a religious faith, but it strongly appeals to the intuition that anything that happens needs a humanoid creator.

      • Knusper@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think, the human brain is special either, but we are still two big steps ahead IMHO:

        • We can perceive what we’ve generated, to judge whether it’s good or bad.
        • We perceive many, many inputs throughout our lives. Not just text, visuals, audio, but also taste, smell, touch and more. To be simultaneously creative and relatable to humans, AIs would need to be equipped with these concepts and would need to be given ‘memories’, which are fleshed out with all these kinds of input.
    • Hubi@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Still, AI is able to “create” new things by a combination of existing concepts. It can generate a Roomba in the style of Van Gogh for example, which is probably not something that currently exists.

    • Cagi@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      “Generative” is such a misleading term. It’s not generating anything, it is replicative.