8chan and 4chan were instrumental in creating the disease that is gamergate and the subsequent online shitheaps it produced. Including but not limited to Trump’s term.
What about Reddit
Reddit has always been democratic. Theres some offshoot subreddits that are a cesspool for republicans. But they isolate themselves.
Reddit has always been democratic
Jesus. Fucking. Wept.
I meant as part of creating and fostering gamergate. The GG subreddit was pretty big. And talking about Trump, /r/TheDonald was pretty big and fairly influential, as far as subreddits go.
Im unfamiliar with gamergate. The internet says it was 4chan and other trolls. And like i said those subreddits were isolated in my viewpoint. /trump and all other conservative communities would commonly ban anyone with a different opinion than the hive mind. No room for discussion. /news was always posting stories of republicans being shitheads. And people wouldnt get banned for just having an opinion, theyd just get downvoted into oblivion.
Atleast this was all how i tailored my reddit feed when i used. I had no desire to see bullshit lies from republican news sites. So maybe my viewpoint was mostly democratic…
I didn’t mean they represented a common sentiment or viewpoint, rather that Reddit was an important platform for them
gamergate was a meaningless troll movement. To imply that they got trump elected is moronic.
It was a watershed moment for the alt-right’s propaganda machine. It’s defined fascist recruiting tactics ever since and it absolutely played a role in Trump’s election. Gamergate was a dramatic shift of the status quo, as ridiculous as it was, to diminish it’s role in shaping the last few years is just ignorant
Gamergate got co-opted by Milo. Steve Bannon took him in and used the tools learned from gamergate to weaponize disaffected white males. This led directly to the rise of trump. It wasn’t the only thing that got trumplethinskin elected, but it was part and it was intentional.
Companies pay millions per year to put just their name on stadiums, etc. Advertising works, even if you believe it doesn’t.
Wasn’t Twitter instrumental in enabling January 6th?
I believe it helped with Arab Spring aswell and most people argue that was a good thing.
Which is why Saudi Arabia gave Elon Musk $22B to buy it without any expectation of a return on their investment. To them, the destruction of twitter was the goal.
oh it isn’t more destroyed than before don’t worry
Facebook was the larger organizing platform, groups, events, etc.
But don’t worry, they kicked Parler off everywhere to distract you.
Well, that was the event that finally forced Twitter to kick Trump of, so they apparently though they had some effect.
Why is there so much fearmongering around 4chan? Everyone that doesn’t use it seems to think of it as an anomaly; when it is nothing but a somewhat “radical” (that too only some boards) social site. Also banning & doing something along those lines to the users of 4chan is the shittiest idea of all time.
Because it and 8chan are racist shitholes that have produced numerous mass murderers, most notably the Christchurch murderer that killed 51 people at a mosque.
I don’t think such sites “produce” mass murderers; they certainly contribute to the accleeration of their extremity–I don’t deny that–but no site can “produce” mass murderers, there has to be some preeminent malignity present in the person.
I think you’re arguing for a distinction without a difference. If the seed of malignancy would not have grown without finding fertile soil, how can you prove it existed? Why is it more fitting to blame this metaphysical and unknowable thing rather than these very real cesspits?
I don’t think the disposition to evil needs a “fertile soil”. For instance, there are evil men in convents–and in quite a high degree too–that harm others in order to break the monotonicity of their life; now, would you say a convent is a “fertile soil” for growth of evil–should be the contrary. The artificial spite is a product of, as I’ve mentioned, a boring and monotonous life, and it so happens the easiest mode available to break this is harm towards others.
In case of natural malignity, the influence on the actions lies not in something mundane as boredom but other natural causes–be it from parental abuse, &c. but I concur that I’ve no scientific knowledge in this field. And, thus I believe that the ones that hold malignity through nature (in contrast with the artificial one) are able to create an environment that accomplishes, or perhaps, breaks, as I’ve said above, their disorder’s whims. And the chans happen to be a pre-existing place with like minded people that nurture each other’s “seeds”, but even in the lack of these imaginary soils, the seeds will grow without any problem.
4chan is so full of teenage racists, incels and general dipshits that I can’t help but think anyone who defends it is also a racist, incel, or generally a dipshit who hasn’t graduated high school yet. Posts like the OP here are the exception, not the rule.
Yep, 4chan is the Nazi bar of the Internet, and cherry picking an example of innocent shitposting means nothing.
It had its moments, twenty years ago, but all the worthwhile anons left ages ago.
There’s even a fairly famous quote from a 4channer about it.
“Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe they’re in good company.” -Descartes né Anon
Of course, Anon still missed the real lesson.
There are always far, far, fewer people “just joking around” than the good people in the room want to assume.
This is basically the state of the GOP these days also
Tell me you think /pol/ is the only board on 4chan without telling me you think /pol/ is the only board on 4chan…
All those racist fascists on -checks notes - /ck/ really piss me off eh
This entire thread is full of people who see nothing but the worst posts and just decide that those represent the entire site
It’s kinda funny because even all the other boards on 4chan make fun of /pol/. The people that use 4chan outside of /pol/ are very aware of what goes on in that board. /x/ is the dopest board on the Internet if you like sci-fi stuff and the whole website originated around anime to begin with, so /a/ probably one of the biggest boards still.
And pedos, don’t forget about the pedos.
That’s mostly 8chan, 4chan doesn’t have a lot of rules but no pedo shit is one of them.
Last time I went there, a while back I admit (before it became mainstream knowledge), it wasn’t moderated out at all. It wasnt nudes (although didn’t look very deep) but they were posting little girl and salivating.
Some of the boards are legit helpful and good too. You can stay away from /r9k/ or /b/ or /pol/ and be fine.
Oof I used to be a regular on r9k and now I cringe so hard about it. Thank God it was anonymous.
I was going through a tough time and the people there accepted me and engaged with my posts. In hindsight I think people just connected with my anger, but the venting was helpful.
At some point a friend saw my laptop and said “holy shit you’re asking 4chan for advice, hahaha what the fuck is wrong with you” and she laughed until she was wheezing, and I never went back on again.
Best way to browse those boards is to go to r/newgreentexts
Is there a Lemmy equivalent?
!greentext@lemmy.ml is fun but infrequently updated.
Not really. The thing is that that subreddit bullies reposters and people who are lazy in writing a title out, so the submissions are higher effort.
The /tg/ board was the source of some of the greatest tabletop RPG content I ever saw in the 2010s, really great discussions and whole homebrew systems born out of threads that just pitch cool ideas. Of course it came with the same veneer of snark and shock comments as the rest of 4chan but that was on every site in the 2010s. I haven’t been back there in a long while so I can’t speak to it these days.
/tg/ is the same as it always was. That type of nerd never changes much. I still go there on occasion to see what’s up in indie RPG and wargames.
/b/ is mostly porn and incest fantasies, which isn’t very good, but nothing compared to /pol/.
I still remember that story about how someone’s boyfriend was radicalized by 4chan and they noticed by “checking his 4chan account” and I think talked about PMs lol
There isn’t any fear mongering. For every innocuous greentext, there’s 10 wildly racist or antisocial posts.
People are dumbass normies who fear anyone slightly different than the mould. You don’t have facebook and instagram? Fucking weird. You don’t know the latest influencer trend? Outcast. You think capitalism is evil and the normalcy is harmful to society? Terrorist.
Thinking capitalism is evil is the absolute norm here.
You just described a lot of Reddit and most Lemmings.
That’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with.
I don’t have Facebook or Instagram or know influencers, but I’m not suffering any ill effects. I’m also an adult though. Maybe it’s harder for youth.
normie
You think capitalism is evil and the normalcy is harmful to society? Terrorist.
Except that this is an accepted mainstream opinion now
It is true that when I see something from 4chan that I don’t understand, I have to approach it with the well earned assumption that it is somehow racist or fascist. This snake thing… I can’t just assume it’s shitposting. With 4chan it could be anything.
It’s just shit posting.
Sure, it might be, and this particular instance seems to be - but I find that it’s best with 4chan to assume malice until shitposting is confirmed.
4chan is mostly shitposts and arguments. It’s pretty much just /pol/, /b/ and /r9k/ that cause trouble. Most other boards are fine.
And yet, if someone told you that one M&M in the bowl was poisoned, you might be leery of that bowl.
exactly what i say about freedom of speech or free access to internet ^^
Can somebody explain what I’m looking at in that post?
All I can make out is that the snake connects between the pictures.
I thought maybe that created some offensive bigger picture, but I don’t see it.
that’s exactly the point of that thread, there’s no need for a reason in everything, sometimes people are silly and enjoy being silly just for the snake of being silly
…for the snake of being silly, you mean.
I read it this way then realized it was spelled wrong
Sssssspelled wrong you mean?
To Manitoba with ya hoser!
Damn, missed that opportunity, just edited It so the next people can giggle at It like I did
80% of 4chan is shitposts with no hidden meaning.
The remaining 10% is people dog-whistling to each other through shit-posts, hoping one will slide into the 80% undetected.
And 10% horrible things that the janitors have to clean up.No offense but if you think there’s any kind of subtlety on 4chan I dare you to browse /b for two minutes. No dogwhistles, just regular, very racist and antisemitic whistles.
/b/? We’re not in 2003 anymore, amigo. /b/ is mainly tranny porn now. There’s no more raids and such. We 4channers got old and now simply drink our beers and laugh at the world. 4chan is and always have been chaotic neutral. The weapons boards /k/ for example is very pro Gun rights but also very pro Ukraine. They cheered Hamas but now shit on Houthis. /pol/ is actually reddit refugees and Indians. All other boards treat /pol/ with disdain, except /tv/ which is also full of election tourists. /int/ is bizarro /pol/ which hates right wing America but also Indians and Polacks. There is no rhyme nor reason to 4chan. It simply is.
I did as you suggested and I saw people singing slurs around like it’s nothing almost immediately. I suppose perhaps given that you have used one in your comment I shouldn’t be surprised that it passes you by, but that is exactly the kind of overt racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia that, I assume, the previous comment was talking about.
Edit: oh, and the rest of it is mostly loli porn. So. That’s a good reason to stay away.
On 4chan it is safe to assume something is fascist unless you can 100% understand it is not.
That’s idiotic.
Maybe on current /pol/, I would understand, but there’s a lot more there than just that place.
let’s play spot the 4channers in the comments!
Also, 80% of commenters on iFunny. That shit heap needs to be nuked.
Scary how many people in here are anti free speech. Yes, they’re stupid, cancerous, lot of white supremacists, and all the scum and villany etc , but like, the point of free speech is that you’re allowed to say that shit.
Make a threat? Absolutely, track IPs and investgate logs, lawful actions against unlawful acts. But to flat out ban every one you disagree with? Disgusting. And you should be ashamed of it.
Any kind of freedom ends were you are violating the freedom of someone else. Spitting hatred against women and minorities has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Saying hateful, dumbass shit doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom. Denying them their right to congregate, get equal service in business, have bodily autonomy, etc. does. However, speech alone is not enough to equate to action, in most cases.
Saying hateful, dumbass shit doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom
That depends entirely on your definition of freedom.
If someone were to punch me, it would violate my freedom from being punched/ bodily harm.
This is illegal in the US.If someone were to insult me, it would violate my freedom from being insulted (maybe psychological harm).
This is legal in the US but illegal elsewhere.speech alone is not enough to equate to action
Speech is not something that happens to you, it’s something you actively do. It is always an action.
As much as I dislike people spitting hatred at women, LGBTQIA+ folks, and POCs, this is still freedom of speech. You don’t have to enjoy it, you don’t have to listen to it, and you’re certainly free to remove these people from your personally owned spaces. But it doesn’t change the fact that people should be allowed to say whatever the fuck they want, otherwise we literally are punishing people for thought crimes and edgy jokes.
People should be judged for their actions, not their words. Words don’t actually mean anything without action behind them.
I’m a gay man, and I’ve definitely given out the occasional f slur pass. Why? Because I honestly think it’s funny as fuck when my best friend of 20 years calls me that. He doesn’t hate me, he knows and loves my partner like a sibling, and he is my brother. It would be so fucked if he got in some kind of actual trouble for that…
The dangerous thing with speech is the ability to radicalize people. I mostly agree with your comment but it’s a more complex topic than “until you don’t do something bad you’re fine”.
So you get a bunch of radicalized people that say shit but don’t do anything about it?
In order for that group of radicalized people to be dangerous, they would have to do something right? Maybe that means March around in Nazi regalia, maybe that means some sort of assault or altercation. But it’s at that point that those people should be charged, not when they are online saying dumb shit.
It isn’t JUST speech that radicalizes people. There are a plethora of underlying material conditions that contribute as well, but nobody here is talking about any of those. We can’t just prevent people from saying bad things, we have to address things like education, poverty, inequality, housing, and journalistic integrity before we can just punish insulting sentiments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6414414/
https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/radicalization-violence-pathway-approach-studying-extremism
you can ban people for saying bad things
So if someone says “let’s kill all women, gays and jews” that’s totally fine for you?
If they’re just saying that, I certainly don’t want to be around them but I don’t think they should go to prison. If they act upon that, that’s entirely different and should be treated as a hate crime.
Also, you just said it. Does context matter to you? What about intention?
I think their point is that you don’t throw them in prison just for saying it. If they actually do it or influence others to do it then that’s very different. I always try to think how a law could be twisted or abused, and once you make simply saying something illegal that opens the door to a lot of authoritarianism.
Something being illegal does not automatically mean prison. In most developed countries prison is a last resort
til am allowed to say personal information
That’s fundamentally not the same thing, don’t be obtuse for the sake of debate points.
Insults and general demeaning comments should not be punished in the court of law. Saying offensive things should not be punished in the court of law.
As I said before, the action/intent is the part that should be punished. Providing private information about someone who you disagree with or want to incur harm upon is an action with malicious intent.
As a leftist, I fail to understand why we always jump to tone policing and purity politics? We can identify the material conditions that cause radicalization and general bigotry and act upon these things, but we always just jump to punishing people for being radical bigots, which only further galvanizes those positions.
We’re not making these spaces smaller, we’re making them more volatile by doing this. They see these conversations and think “this is why we have to remove leftism, because they will punish us for crimes we have yet to do” and that’s precisely what this argument is.
was joke ._.
Well I’m holding you in contempt in court for making a joke that I didn’t agree with. I hope you’re ready to pay a huge fine, because this is an open and shut case.
because private company is same as government
._.
Why does your freedom of speech cover insulting me? It doesn’t make any sense? Instead of me having to remove myself from public spaces to not get insulted, the people insulting in public spaces should be removed???
Because what is insulting enough to warrant removal is extremely subjective. Pretty much everyone agrees there’s a line somewhere, where people draw that line is very different. I would never even consider trying to stop people from making bad edgy jokes, but I will tell them the joke isn’t funny and they just seem like a bigot if that’s what I think.
I also wouldn’t consider 4chan a public place. Someone holding up a sign in a train station that says “gays are an abomination” I would agree should be removed as they are actively making a public space hostile to someone. But then I’d also put different standards on a non-spontaneous demonstration, as those have to be cleared beforehand and won’t happen on a super frequent basis, and there needs to be some way to voice any opinion that doesn’t outright call for violence.
Well you guys do realise though, that outside the US, in a damn big ass amount of countries, insulting people is illegal and not considered freedom of speech?
I am not in the US lol. Insulting people is in fact illegal here, that doesn’t mean i necessarily agree with that in a general capacity. There was a famous case of a politician here a few years ago that sued and had someones house raided over them insulting them on twitter (with a very harmless insult too), which is absolutely ridiculous.
Get over it Karen. Fucking baby.
Oh wow now you really showed me. I have the right to bear arms so I will arm myself with a nuclear bomb. When anyone steps on my property lawn I will detonate it.
Get a grip troll.
Wut
If someone comes after my hatred of Nazis… I stg
the point of free speech is that you’re allowed to say that shit.
No, it isn’t
11 days later but
“Nu uh” wow you sure showed me
You’re standing up for hateful assholes so great job
This is the internet - please desist from being reasonable and choose a side. Many thanks.
Hey guys, he said the secret phrase, All other opinions are invalidated. everyone please clap. 👏👏👏
how is
kicking bigot off platform is violation of free speech
reasonable
Because otherwise you run the risk of being bigoted about bigots. Ironic. Keep them in the open, learn what they think, be prepared to shut them down at every available opportunity - show them the error of their beliefs again and again and again. History suggests that banning things doesn’t make the problem go away. It just drives it underground, out of sight, where they can mutate and coalesce without anybody from the outside knowing or realising… then we all be fucked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g?feature=shared&t=2288
banning them is shutting them down
how do you use logic to get someone out of belief they didn’t arrive at with logic
I’m passingly familiar with Popper’s work and it probably goes some way to explaining why I advocate for public intolerance, rather than tolerance, of these sad, lost and potentially dangerous individuals. The second video was age locked - I’m sure it is full of good points - but I can’t comment on it directly. I meant a more vernacular meaning to “shut them down” - I.e. telling them firmly that they are mistaken and offering them a different insight. As for logic I’m not sure it’s much use as most extremism tends to come from the heart rather than the head, so to speak. All I hope is that I can plant a seed of doubt… whether it grows or not is beyond my control. People generally have a bit of a herd mentality - hence the growth of echo chambers online and in popular legacy media. If you spend all your time surrounded by only your own views you’ll never expand your outlook and will, in all probability, become even more entrenched. I’d hate to think what kind of a c*** I could be now if 35 years ago some people hadn’t called me out and made me reassess myself and my views towards certain sections of humanity.
you can see different views and ban bigotry at same time
Freedom of speech works out when everyone’s speech is equal. But in the real world, it isn’t. if it were, the minority wouldn’t have to fight for their rights and the laws would apply the same to the majority.
“free speech” is clickbait for the racists, created by racists to drown out the opposing voices of minority while calling it equality.
Your “freedom of speech” was added in the constitution on December 15, 1791. It took almost 200 years for the cilvil rights movement in 1950s for the black people to have equal rights.
Don’t flaunt it like it has any shred of importance beyond what the majority of the US population uses it for. And it’s to be racist bigots.
Keep concern trolling though
Didn’t freedom of speech protect the civil rights movement more than if it weren’t in the constitution? Just because bad people make use of this right, doesn’t make it inherently bad. It’s not concern trolling because we think you’re overcorrecting, and any attempt to censor 4chan will lead to either “angering the wasps” or censorship of benign ideas.
Just know that I am arguing in good faith because I know that the people who decide what to censor will overcorrect, and I think that causes more harm than good.
This 100% well said.
Only thing I feel like responding to:. This might be hard for you to understand but people can have differing opinions than you and not be trolling. It’s not healthy to have that belief.
Case closed I guess.
Image Transcription: Twitter Post
Emma Kennedy, @EmmaKennedy
You know what? Everyone on 4chan and 8chan should be on a terror list. Every single incel. I couldn’t give a single shit about their “freedom of speech”
[A screenshot of a messageboard thread is shown. There are 3 images in the screenshot, all of crudely drawn green snakes. The images of the snakes connect together, despite being posted in separate posts by separate users. The second image of a snake has a caption of “sssssnek” and a comment after all three snake images states “Whoa, watch out, you scared me there for a bit.”]
Actually a cold blooded snake might well be the best emblem to represent the users of 4chan and/or 8 chan. Well known for their publishing of pedophilic content and love for showing kids getting gored to death.
Day 279: Lemmy advocating for full on fascism on worldwide scale. Again.
Wtf are you talking about?
They probably meant authoritarianism or something like that
TIL fascism and authoritarianism mean “to judge a shitty thing as shitty”
Friend…
Everyone should be on a terror list
I couldn’t give a single shit about their “freedom of speech”
They might be talking about this part…
Yeah find me a single response where anyone is agreeing with that sentiment.
“Lemmy is advocating for full on fascism!!!” When I think OP actually was advocating in favor of FrEe SpEeCh in reality
Maybe they saw this top comment (atm) and went off based on that. I hope they’d clarify what they meant though (Shardikprime, I mean)
Nothing about that comment is fascist, unless fascism means “factual”
