- cross-posted to:
- anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17147012
"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."
-a 15yo autistic girl experiencing ABA therapy
This is only vaguely related, but I remember reading that anti-authoritarianism is a trait of autism. I’m an autistic anarchist, so seeing the crosspost community is fun
Yeah, I understand hierarchy but it’s only a title, you’re just a person like everyone else so fucking chill
I can understand hierarchy in systems, roles, and responsibilities. I cannot understand hierarchies in social settings. It’s not even values-related or a choice. I just don’t have the mental capacity to even see it.
I’ve been wondering for a while now whether loyalty to a group of people is a trait that is more commonly found in non-autistic people. Would explain so much.
From personal experience I’ve noticed that autistic people tend to be more loyal. But less so to caregivers who don’t care, which is too often the case
Yeah, I more meant that if they were a caregiver themselves then they would more likely call out bad caregivers, rather than just silently accept it because they don’t want to make waves.
I don’t know how much that is a stronger drive to do things right, and how much that because it might be reminding some of how we were treated.
Either way you are absolutely right
There was a blogpost posted to here a while ago that looked into that and seemed to find it true. The whole tone of it felt a bit masturbatory but it was still an interesting read, I’ll see if I can find it
Edit: I failed to find it but anyway, it’s probably the case.
My bet is that this is often the result of receiving more mistreatment than usual, or from simply being less likely to adhere to the already established social hierarchies because the social hierarchy just rejects you, which turn (pretty reasonable) attitudes that later become rationalised as anti-authoritarianism.
Pretty sure it’s more than that. The entire concept of just obeying someone “because they’re the authority” is incomprehensible to me. Give me a reason and if it makes sense I’ll do it. Otherwise if I don’t agree with it I don’t see why I should.
To me it depends on the context. In a new job, I take a humble stance and repeat to myself:
And I just work according to instructions assuming the higher up’s have a roughly good idea what they are doing.
After a few months, you can start understanding the broader context and spot some mistakes. Then you can start making suggestions.
Yea, if I don’t know the full context then I can just accept it unless I think it’s completely stupid, and then I’ll just ask. Getting the explanation also helps with understanding the processes better.
I think I most commonly notice this when it’s a movie theme, where some character is struggling with disobeying a person of authority that doesn’t actually hold significant power over them and is just an authority because of social hierarchy. It wouldn’t even cross my mind to obey them if I didn’t want to do what they’re asking, and all I can think is “why are you doing this”.
I don’t know if this has anything do to with autism either, but what you said fits the pattern for me in pretty much most of my life. For example, if a doctor gives me a prescription and tells me to take it every day, I often find it hard to keep up the habit unless I learn exactly how the drug works. Not because I don’t believe them, but more because by understanding the mechanism, of being able to see the steps of cause and effect for myself, it becomes more “real”. Like my brain more easily can see why if I want result B I must do action A. Although thinking about this is probably more relevant to long-term medications, not something like a pain killer or cough syrup, where the cause and effect are more obvious. (I hope that makes sense; I really should be in bed right now.)
Needing explanations/understanding to be willing to do things is a pretty common pattern in autistic people afaik. Doesn’t have to be autism, but it’s an autistic trait. If someone refuses to provide an explanation if I ask (provided there’s not some reason I shouldn’t know) I just get irritated and probably won’t do it out of spite.
I wonder how much of that is a reaction to not understanding rules. Since transitioning, my sister has gone into the “everyone needs to submit to God” category.
Of course, God could be the only authority and every other authority is an idol.