Ms. Soussana, 40, is the first Israeli to speak publicly about being sexually assaulted during captivity after the Hamas-led raid on southern Israel. In her interviews with The Times, conducted mostly in English, she provided extensive details of sexual and other violence she suffered during a 55-day ordeal.
Ms. Soussana’s personal account of her experience in captivity is consistent with what she told two doctors and a social worker less than 24 hours after she was freed on Nov. 30. Their reports about her account state the nature of the sexual act; The Times agreed not to disclose the specifics.
. . .
For months, Hamas and its supporters have denied that its members sexually abused people in captivity or during the Oct. 7 terrorist attack. This month, a United Nations report said that there was “clear and convincing information” that some hostages had suffered sexual violence and there were “reasonable grounds” to believe sexual violence occurred during the raid, while acknowledging the “challenges and limitations” of examining the issue.
We also don’t call Nazis victims when they face retaliation for their crimes against humanity either.
We also generally don’t condone retaliation against civilians for the actions of the government. We didn’t punish all Germans for what the Nazis did. Let’s not punish civilians for what Israel’s doing.
Otherwise? You’re closer to those Nazis than not.
Civilians don’t typically hang out in occupied territory.
Yeah they do? It’s how governments and groups try to legitimize their occupation and claims. It’s how the USSR operated in Eastern Europe with Russification.
That does not make it acceptable to kill the civilians. Russian citizens in Crimea are not enemy combatants. They can be evicted if they won’t peacefully integrate with the rightful owning country, but they shouldn’t be raped or killed.
Note that this is very different from the Israeli settlers. They exist in a grey area because they are committing violence against the Palestinians there and generally being awful shitheads and active colonizers.
Yea, if an invading force is slaughtering people to conquer your home, they are no longer just civilians. They are active combatants.
Do you not see any distinction between the actual military forces invading and slaughtering your people versus civilians who are living nearby?
I’m stating the difference between an invader and a civilian distinctly.
Your inability to address what I’ve said isn’t my problem.
You’re being clear as mud.
Let me just ask unequivocally – do you think every Israeli person, regardless of where they live in the country, is an invader and a legitimate target?
If you believe that the murder of all Israelis is just, come out and actually say it. Don’t be shy now.
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Oh, come on now. And what, exactly, do you want to happen the evil Zionists?
Sure, it’d be nice if there was a cute kumbaya moment, but absent that, if Israelis have no desire to leave, what do you want to happen to them?
The implication of your proposition is that only genocide can decide this.
Your assumption is ludicrous and fascist. It says everything that needs to be said about your beliefs. By assuming only bloodshed is the solution, you remove the responsibility for you to face the genocide you are supporting.
I would have a criminal investigation and follow-up to this genocide similar to the Nuremberg Trials.
I want the people responsible locked up for life, and I want freedom for the people of Palestine.
So how about you? Can you honestly answer what exactly you want out of this?
Okay, so who are the people responsible? A handful of leaders? Most of the original Zionists have been dead for a long time. Is it literally every single Israeli? What exactly does this freedom and justice look like? I don’t think locking up Netanyahu and Ben Gvir would exactly satisfy the Palestinian cause, so ultimately, you have the situation of millions of Israelis, most of which were born there, who do not want to leave and will only do so by force.
So, what do you want? The forced removal of all Israelis? That’s not an inconsistent position given your general perspective, but if that’s the case, come out and actually say it.
You’ve said a lot of nice abstract things about wanting freedom and justice, and very little actual concrete info about the situation on the ground.
It’s sadly ironic that these people who go “you don’t think killing all of them is justified? You’re just a genocidal Nazi yourself!” don’t realize they’re acting the exact same way as Netanyahu and the IDF. If you don’t support their absolutist violence, you’re an antisemite who wants Hamas to kill all Israelis.
They’ll make all sorts of excuses, but at the end of the day, they use the exact same underlying ideology/argument that is being used to justify genocide.
Gish gallop.
You made an absolute out of genocide and then kited right past the fact your original stance was an absolute acceptance of genocide despite the obvious other answers.
You will not stop clawing to justify the genocide, I don’t care to continue debating genocidal nazis.
Is an Israeli child born in Tel Aviv a genocidal Nazi? Is it okay if they’re captured by Hamas?
I really hope your response is an unequivocal no. We don’t kill people for the sins of their fathers. We can expect them to make things right and work towards equity and peace, but they shouldn’t be punished.
Part of the issue with this conflict is how long Israel has now existed and is established. There are people who have nothing to do with the Zionists. They shouldn’t be punished for what the Zionists have done and are doing. There will never be peace if you continue to kill people for what their ancestors did.
How many Israeli children starved to death yesterday?
Nazis had children too and didn’t justify the actions of the Nazis.
Would it be justified to bomb the homes of the Nazis to kill them if it also meant killing their children?
I dont think I have to answer that to say it is wrong to starve children to death.