Can I just rant a little to you all?
I’ve tried numerous times to help people from reddit set up an account and get started on Kbin (and lemmy), but 4 out of 5 times people can’t seem to grasp the concept of registering an account and starting to use this platform. Even breaking it down into 2 steps, with direct links… They get angry, and then ragequit their attempt in a huff saying how it’s too fucking complicated and it will never take off because it’s so hard.
Ok, I get that the fediverse is complicated if you think deeply about all the interconnectivity and federation etc, but there is no reason you even have to think about any of it to create an account and get started. Like, at all.
It reminds me so much of my 70/y old mother-in-law not immediately knowing how to work a tv remote and shoving it at me after 1.5 seconds saying “here, I can’t figure this out”. When in reality all she had to do was press the fucking big red button…
I’m just so frustrated with people’s complete lack of ability to help themselves.
My hot take: I’m okay with a barrier to entry (right now).
Getting setup on the fediverse isn’t necessarily a super simple process and there is a bit of learning curve for how it works.
That’s okay. I actually like it. Here’s why.
It means the people here want to be here. It means the people here understand what it is and more importantly what it isn’t. It’s not a reddit clone. It’s not even old school forums. It’s this.
And “this” isn’t even it’s final form. I fully expect for the fediverse to evolve over the next few months and years. As a community develops and the technology is refined, I am sure it will all get simpler as we knock off the rough edges.
In the mean time, this tiny barrier to entry keeps a lot of the whiners and naysayers away. It keeps people that only want a reddit clone, away. If you want reddit, use reddit. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
It’s a balancing act, because we don’t want to turn so many people away that we can’t build a reasonable community, but you also don’t want a bad copy of a system people are leaving.
Let me put it…indelicately. We are filtering out idiots with nothing to share and who aren’t willing to put in effort.
That’s fine. Keep chugging along
Not a bad take. It is insanely simple. All the talk I read before trying made it seem like I would be jumping though hoops… Just set .world as the instance and made a login like I would anywhere else…
Is that ONE extra curve ball too much for people?
I think it’s mostly choice paralysis, people are used to have centralised social media and when they enter the fe diverse they are like “where should I go? Which instance is the best one?”. Maybe an automatic instance picker that assigns your closest, moderately populated instance with the option to manually choose would help solve this.
I agree. Picking an instance was really difficult with all the options available. Also, to conciously pick an instance, you would first have to understand what they are and how Fediverse works, which is quite a lot to ask from a person who comes from a centralised social media platform. There are some hurdles that have to jumped, albeit they are quite low. Even low hurdles are still hurdles though and add to the effort which deters many people from joining.
Seriously, the Internet was better before it was so accessible. I might sound arrogant, but I don’t care. I want people here who actually have half a clue about how to operate a computer. If someone doesn’t even know how to sign up to a website and rage quits, I’m quite glad they aren’t here.
Anyone got a good tutorial to share for folks who want to jump?
I can only assume that the people having trouble understanding kbin/lemmy are either relatively young, or relatively inexperienced with technology. Basically those people whose online experience really only started in the era of Reddit/Facebook/Twitter/etc. Those of us who were online in the early 2000s are familiar with web forums. Kbin Magazines/Lemmy Communities are basically just web forums that can be interacted with from any kbin or Lemmy instance that’s federated. Those of us who are even older and were online in the 90s (or earlier) are familiar with Usenet. Kbin Magazines/Lemmy Communities are basically Usenet newsgroups, with the particular instance you’re on essentially the same as your Usenet provider. Or for the really old folks like me, instances are like BBSes that are connected to each other with FidoNet.
It reminds me of people who get confused getting on Discord for the first time, when it’s really just a modern incarnation of chat-rooms or IRC. None of these ideas are new, and people were able to figure out these core concepts decades ago.
It is confusing. Simple as. I have an account on lemmy dot ca, but I don’t understand how to view or participate in kbin content so I just don’t
You are literally participating in kbin content right now, commenting on a thread on a kbin magazine posted by a user registered to kbin.
I also did not know what a kbin is as of a few minutes ago, but the great thing is, that I really didn’t need to know. I guess it feels “complicated” because there is much that can be learned but you don’t necessary have to.
People also did not know how the Reddit backends work and just used it but apparently they feel that they HAVE to learn how the fediverse works on day 1.
Tbf, I think that underlines what he was saying. He has no idea where he is, or that he is already participating kbin.
Compare that to reddit, and it’s more complicated.
It also underlines what the OP is saying. The average user doesn’t need to do anything or think about anything special to use the platform. Simply making an account and interacting with whatever is on front of you will work.
It’s only complicated if you’re constantly comparing it to reddit in your head and trying to recreate the exact experience here.
Not always. There are the defederated instances, for example. Sometimes things break like lemmy.ml and people are having issues subscribing to communities (it’s apparently just a visual bug, but still). There have been tons of questions about the Fediverse from people who just got here. Kbin, for example, was not federating properly for a while before and we on lemmy could not see any posts on it. That can matter if a specific community is on an instance not accessible to a user for one reason or another.
Edit: I’m not criticizing the Fediverse, but it still has issues to be addressed. It’s pretty young relative to big social media sites like FB, reddit, etc so growing pains are to be expected. But we do need to acknowledge the issues if we hope to fix them later on.
Yes but that’s only relevant if you’re aware of a specific community on a specific instance and expect to be interacting with it on purpose.
It’s completely irrelevant if someone just gives you the name of an instance, tells you to make an account on it and start using. You’ll be perfectly fine reading and commenting whatever’s in your feed.
The only way this breaks is if you’re in an instance that is too small to have local traffic while having technical difficulties with federation. If the instance is active enough or it’s federating normally, someone completely unaware of the concept of federation will be perfectly fine as long as they understand the interface.
They’ll be fine until someone recommends a community on another instance complete with link and suddenly the user is logged out, can’t subscribe to that community, and when they try to log back in by clicking the login link on the page, it says account not found.
For this reason, there is a need for at least a little bit of understanding about how federation works.
The funny part is, you’re viewing and participating in kbin content right here. This is a thread posted to kbin. My reply will look to you as if it was made in lemmy, but it’s not. I have a kbin account, and that’s the magic at work.
The best analogy I heard so far is email; everyone gets that you can send an email from gmail to outlook. We are just not used to that websites can interconnect with each other but give it some time and it will be second nature to people
Please stop with the email analogy. It really doesn’t help with anything. You send emails to an email address, people don’t think of the back end of that process at all and can’t make an analogy to social media where posts just… go out into the ether.
The only reason this is confusing is that tech-heads in these services can’t shut up about federation despite federation being largely irrelevant to the experience. The fact that the poster above didn’t even notice that the interaction is happening cross-service but still was confused about how to interact cross-service tells you that the way to help people get over how “hard” understanding federation is would be to shut up about it.
I mean, that won’t help with people not being willing to just make an account on a place at all, but yeah, everybody is so pleased about the interoperability thing that they make the day-to-day use of federated services seem a lot more convoluted than it is in practice.
I actually agree. Nobody explains DNS to people trying to understand how mail works. They don’t need to understand MX records, SPF records, DMARC, DKIM, or anything. All they need to know is sign up and how to use the To: field to start sending emails. Hell - you don’t even need to and probably don’t want to explain the purpose of the CC or BCC fields at this point either.
If a user is trying to actually understand the underlying technology then the email analogy can be a first introduction. But if someone is technical enough to be trying to learn it’s better to just teach them about ActivityPub.
Ok, I get that the fediverse is complicated if you think deeply about all the interconnectivity and federation etc, but there is no reason you even have to think about any of it
you must be kidding. there is no reason to think about that?
to find communities/magazines you have to use some 3rd party tools (you may be lucky and see something in the “all” feed, but that is not guaranteed), then when you find it, you can’t just click subscribe, you have to grab the url, go back to another tab where you are logged into your instance and subscribe by manually constructing the url, or pasting the url somewhere (maybe, haven’t tried that way).
don’t take me wrong, i am fan of open source, which is why i am here, but if you don’t see how this is complicated for average non-tech-savy user, then i am not sure what to tell you.
I don’t see how it’s hard for a non-tech-savvy user to use. The actual usage is near-identical to reddit. Pretty much the only hurdle in that regard is trying to subscribe to magazines on other instances that haven’t been synced yet. Other than that? It works the same as reddit. If you think kbin is too hard, how tf were you using reddit?
Do you want those people who can’t even make an account here anyway? Lol
In all seriousness, SSO is a thing and maybe the devs are already looking into it. Google, Facebook. Git, and more all have ways to sign in to services for you. I wouldn’t vote to use them given the ideals of why people are moving to these platforms, but if someone wants to use their apple account to sign in here and that makes it easy for them. I’d be happy for it’s implementation.I guess that is the silver-lining, we can weed out people that wouldn’t be able to contribute anyway. It’s just maddening that there are even people like that out there. I kind of gave up on helping people bridge the gap from reddit to here.
I think the basics of posting a few links and then leaving it at that is good enough. Eventually it will get easier and we will get more users, best to not overload the servers now anyway
