I was diagnosed in 2019; late in life, mid 30s. One of the biggest issues I’ve been struggling with lately are these huge cyclical mood swings that can last weeks. I’ll be up and active, optimistic, and productive for a week or so, and feel like there’s nothing I can’t do. I’m excited about everything and often make a lot of overly-aggressive plans. Then the wave of depression comes, and I’ll spend a week in bed, crying, and then a week or two basically just disassociating and actively avoiding any responsibilities. The down is always longer than the up, and I feel like I’m slowly losing ground to the depression. I’m not sure if I’ve always had these issues or if they’ve just gotten worse lately. My ability to look into the past, especially in regards to my own emotional state, is limited.
My doc says that “cyclothymia” or mood cycles are not uncommon with ADHD, though they are not technically related I guess. That said, I don’t see too many people talking about it. Anyone else dealing with this sort of thing?
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Possibly a stupid question, but are you having a menstruation cycle, and if yes, are you tracking it? I was not able to infer the likelihood by your previous responses…
I’m asking because a certain amount of being high energy before and during ovulation, and more down between ovualtion and menstruation is very common, with some people having more severe bodily symptoms (PMS) in the down phase, and there is also a supercharged version of PMS with mainly depression like symptoms, called PMDD. It’s caused by a sensitivity to hormonal changes and can develop at any point in life. The monthly cycling sounds a lot like it.
(Possibly not applicable to you, then please ignore it, but maybe useful info for others).
Not a stupid question! I am not a person who menstruates, however, so unlikely to be the issue for me personally. Still good info and always best to not make assumptions either way, thank you!
It’s correct that mood swings and depression aren’t considered a part of ADHD but both are common comorbidities (along with ASD which can be misdiagnosed as either of them) - so yeah, a lot of us deal with a whole gift basket worth of different issues. Personally, I’ve struggled with depression and am trying to get a formal evaluation for ASD and I suspect you’ll find depression is pretty common in this community as it’s a comorbidity I’ve seen extremely often in ADHD folks I know IRL.
It’s important to make sure your doctor is aware of the different things you’re experiencing and dealing with them separately - stimulant medications can mask depression symptoms until you fall off a cliff.
In terms of plans going awry, if you can, make sure your friends and acquaintances are aware of your ADHD and, especially, that sometimes you’ll be flakey. If your network accepts that it’ll be easier for you to flake and easier for you to recover. In my youth I was aware of how flakey I could be but flaking out on something would fill me with so much guilt that I’d end up taking much longer to recover.
Being honest with yourself and accepting the time lost to strong emotions is always going to be more healthy than struggling to try and stay “normal”.
I appreciate this advice, especially talking to the doc. I could probably stand to bring it up again, it’s been a while. My biggest issue for sure is the guilt and frustration that comes with my unpredictable performance, but it’s less an issue of disappointing others and more of an issue of self-worth. I have things I legitimately want to do with my life, and both the skill and the opportunity to do those things. I just… can’t seem to do it. I rationally know why, but that doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
It’s nice, at least, that it’s something we talk about nowadays.
“stimulant medications can mask depression symptoms until you fall off a cliff”
i very much doubt that. that would mean substance abuse, since you take stims to better your mood. that doesnt work, since you have to up your dose every week.
Howdy! I’m dealing with something sort of similar, but with mine it’s not nearly as regular or predictable. Those downs hit hard though. I also have a super limited ability at seeing the past, it all just fades into fog. You’re definitely not alone though!
Memory loss is something I deal with as well. It fucking sucks to have the emotional echoes but very few distinct memories from more than a few years back and conversations with my mother often go “Do you remember that time you asked Suzie Q to the dance and then wore that vest we’d gotten for you?” And I’ll smile and nod as I just try and ignore how much of my memories are just lost to that fog… for me, at least, I still have a lot of the emotional resonance so even if my first kiss is no longer a firm memory I can still get some feelies out of knowing it happened and the person it happened with.
Oh yeah I remember very little, and what I do remember is a story I’ve been telling or have heard told enough that I know the story but have no real memory of the event. Whenever I’m in my home town I’m constantly getting people telling me we went to high school together and I always feel bad telling them I don’t remember them. I also don’t really have the ability to conjure or remember visual things, everything is sort of a nebulous mix of vague emotional memory and useless encyclopedic fact-lists. I can rattle off every phone number I’ve ever had, but I can’t remember what my grandmother looked like. I’ve been told most people do not have this issue, lol.
The grandmother memory loss absolutely hits with me. I don’t want to psychobabble and misattribute things but relationships with me tend to suffer that short object permanence effect - if I don’t see a friend for a few months they’ll often just fall off my radar entirely… until I see them again and the memories will rush back. I have a good friend with ADHD and we meet up maybe once a year - they are an extremely close friend even if that doesn’t seem to make sense… but when I walk into a coffee shop and sit down with them we’ll talk for hours and usually end up getting kicked out when they close.
This hurts (kind of, it’s guilt driven hurt) when it comes to grandparents or other people who have passed away… if they come up in conversation or because of some related strong association I’ll think of them and have a little bundle of memories that have weathered the years. But, like, my father passed away only two years ago or so and I rarely think of him - so then I feel guilty for not thinking about him more often and cry (as I am now) but give me an hour or two and he’ll completely fly from active memory again.
I have no idea if neurotypical people are being genuine or performative when they say “Not a day goes by when I don’t think about them” but that’s absolutely not my experience.
if I don’t see a friend for a few months they’ll often just fall off my radar entirely…
I’ve lost a lot of friends, and messed up at least one serious relationship, because of this phenomenon. If someone isn’t around, I just don’t think about them. When they are around, I’m fully invested, but that’s not enough for some people.
are you medicated?
normal people would classify this als bipolar episodes; but i guess the first phase is just the normal adhd you, and the second phase is the exhaustion phase.
your ability to look in the past?
do you feel like you have no real concept of time? thats real interesting. because this topic is insanely huge in me.
ritaline helped me a great deal. and cutting out grains, since i had food allergies. my anxeity went down, and my energy levels normalized. i dont have those phases anymore. i feel i was way stupider 2 years ago.
i dont do crazy shit anymore. i have the plans, but usually, they stay plans, which is great.
Yeah, I’ve been on a few different things, Sertraline and Atomoxetine is the current cocktail. They always seem to help for a few months, but it never seems to take long to get back to the regular-scheduled programming. I was previously on Adderall but I think it made things worse, I was unusually angry and aggressive. My doc says I don’t meet the qualifications for bipolar, as mentioned “cyclothymia” is the term she uses, basically bipolar-light, but definitely related.
For me, time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. See my comment in a thread elsewhere in this post. I really struggle with both measuring time and with my long-term memory. I am good with facts but bad with my own personal history, and have no ability to imagine or recall images in the way it seems most people can.
adderal: you were put on a constant overdose my friend. can be helped.
one question, bear with me:
did you gain weight? are you fit? are you thin? are you active? do you have cravings for alcohol or sweets or high caloric food?
thats important, be truthfull
to be honest:
sounds like atomoxetine and sertaline dont work for jack *hit
what you describe was unmedicated me all my life.
you can just as well stop taking those. they dont seem to do anything.It’s against the rules of the community to advise others what to do with their medications.
thanks, i didnt know that. i will not do that again.
Yeah I’ve gained some weight in the last couple years. I hurt my back pretty bad a while back, and that combined with a bunch of new meds since then have not done my figure any favors. I don’t drink, though, haven’t for years. I definitely don’t crave sweets or foods in general, but I’m not nearly as active as I probably should be, given the back and the computer job and the 105 degree summer heat lately. I’m not thin by any stretch of the imagination, but I did just do a 4 day hike through the eastern Sierras so it’s not like I do nothing.
I agree with you that the meds don’t seem to help much. That said, I do trust my doc, and she has preached a slow and steady approach with good documentation, so I’ll keep taking the meds for now.
you have to realize that pretty much any medication that is designed to calm you down has side effects.
in my case, it all began when having high blood pressure. they gave me a beta blocker. had a huge accident , they put me on antidepressants. anti depressants make you insuline resistant. the beta blocker not as much, but it is suspected that it does.
thats the reason people gain weight when being on meds - its not so much that they eat more and are sedentary, they eat more and are sedentary because the meds make them. yes, that only happens to a majourity of people and not all of them, but the people that gain fat, have more insuline resistance that people that wont gain fat.
its easy to verify, just look in the side effects despription.
so, the more insuline resistent you are, the higher your insulin levels get. and thats not a normal state of being. it mucks up endochrine function, also glucose metabolism, i will not explain all of that now.
so, your endochrine system is kinda out of step.
but now you take all these meds, and they are influencing lots of things in your metabolism. its like throwing a spanner in a well oiled machine. stimulants are different, they are like putting a turbo on your car engine. antidepressants are like pouring sand in your engine so it slows down. it kinda works, yes.
one thing you can do, apart from optimizing your food, for possible intolerances (in my case, grains and nightshades), is to loose weight.
if you absolutely cant loose weight no matter what you do, its likely the meds. and then its up to you what to do.
realize that you once didnt have the mood issue, and now you do.
and once you didnt have the weight, and now you do.
omce you didnt took the meds, and now you do.
something is going on with you, and you dont know what, but all of this has an explanation. the body is not stupid. it does what it is supposed to do under the circumstances, via the tools you give it.
you are young, it is not aging or lack of sleep or to much screen time.
change up things and see what happens.
