They’re not alleged oppressors. Women’s rights in this country have always been an uphill battle, and we were already quite a ways away from proper equity before the MAGA crowd and the republicans started rolling things back. Is the ACAB sentiment bigotry? Are BIPOC communities bigoted for being wary of white politics and actions?
There are two genders in this country: Cis-male, and political. If you’re not cis-male, you’re at a disadvantage out of the gate, and it is far from unreasonable for women or people in general to be wary and suspicious when it comes to their safety. I have no misandrist views, but I am keenly aware of my disadvantages and vulnerabilities when it comes to interactions with cis-men, particularly in romantic or sexual contexts.
I voted for Harris, the whole point of the protest is that men overwhelmingly voted for trump, so they should protest all men. I’m absolutely just an alleged oppressor here, not actually one, and I’m being looped in solely because of my sex.
You have every right to be weary about anyone you want. But this isn’t just “being weary” it’s putting everyone of a certain sex into a group and shutting them out. It’s akin to the people who say “the only people who have stolen from me are black, so I won’t hire any black people.” It’s just racism/misandry, regardless of whether or not the suspicions have roots in reality.
Refusing to engage in sex or relationships is not “shutting people out”, it’s exercising bodily and personal autonomy. This issue is a potato in a world of apples and oranges and cannot be compared meaningfully to other issues. Is a lesbian the equivalent of a racist for being entirely uninterested in men? Is an asexual person a bigot because they refuse to have sex with anyone?
The assertions you are making are a moot point if you value consent at all. If women do not consent to be in relationships or have sex, that needs to be the end of the discussion without coercing them to change their minds by calling them bigots for their refusal to consent.
Refusing to engage in sex or relationships is not “shutting people out”, it’s exercising bodily and personal autonomy.
We both agree that they 100% have the right to do this. You don’t need to convince me of that. The thing is that these two things are not mutually exclusive; they are using the right to bodily and personal autonomy to shut people out. No amount of spin will change this. It’s the whole point of the protest, or at least ostensibly so.
Is a lesbian the equivalent of a racist for being entirely uninterested in men? Is an asexual person a bigot because they refuse to have sex with anyone?
I’ve been very clear about my position: they are blaming all men because of the actions of some men. That’s the misandry. Trying to equate this to (paraphrased) “you must thing lesbians are misandrists too!” is either just a disingenuous spin, or you aren’t trying to understand.
If women do not consent to be in relationships or have sex, that needs to be the end of the discussion without coercing them to change their minds by calling them bigots for their refusal to consent.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I’m just pointing out that their blatant misandry is misandry.
If you are so intent upon discussion of this matter as being an issue of misandry, I certainly hope that you are as staunchly against misogyny and intend to do far more than just voting for Kamala to protect women in this country.
That is my main concern. Men will not suffer irreparable harm from the consequences of the coming Trump administration anywhere near the same way women will. I will assume that you will consider this to be misandrist as well, but I have little regard for the concerns and complaints of men in this matter because for women, this is quite literally a matter of life and death.
Trying to harp on the “misandry” part of this is not productive towards the goal of the protest which is the protection of women’s rights and lives against the coming onslaught.
If you are so intent upon discussion of this matter as being an issue of misandry, I certainly hope that you are as staunchly against misogyny and intend to do far more than just voting for Kamala to protect women in this country.
Tu quoque fallacy.
I will assume that you will consider this to be misandrist as well
Well, you’d be wrong because I wholeheartedly agree.
Trying to harp on the “misandry” part of this is not productive towards the goal of the protest which is the protection of women’s rights and lives against the coming onslaught.
I’m not trying to harp on anything. I called out some misandry, and then a bunch of people have jumped in to defend that prejudice. All I’ve done is defend my position. You act like I’m following 4B people around making sure to shout misandry any chance I get.
Yours is a voice in a chorus in the response to this article on Lemmy. The majority of the comments on this article and similar ones are calling out the “misandry” and shouting down commenters who disagree with them. The predominant sentiment appears to be men interpreting this as an indiscriminate punishment and expressing that they are personally aggrieved and offended by this protest because they’re “one of the good ones”.
Right now, if you want to be “one of the good ones”, you need to be turning around and fighting the men who are expressing entitlement in the face of this protest as well as the men who started out from the position of “your body, my choice”. Simply stating that you are an ally is not enough. As a man, you have the privileged position of being able to speak to other men on a more level playing field to try to convince them of the gravity of the impending attack on women’s rights without being accused of being “emotional”, “hysterical”, or “misandrist” just for participating in the conversation.
Again with the tu quoque. Does your abandonment of the point to focus solely on ignorantly attacking what you imagine I do in real life mean you realize that I made a good point? I don’t disagree with what you say here, but, fuck, to spend this whole time shitting on men and making up the worst about me, and then turn around and demand I act in a certain way takes a lot of fucking nerve. If you want men to be allies, I suggest stop defending when people act like they are all guilty for Trump being elected.
This is tied into the problem that the left has with a lot of protests and campaigns. The real/best answers are always nuanced, but if you try to fit that into a meme, or in a slogan, or in a soundbyte, it just ends up being garbled gibberish. The “Not All Men” argument obstinately ignores the fact that having a nuanced discussion through a megaphone at a protest just does not work. Of course it is not all men, but it is a large enough proportion to be seriously worried about.
This is similar to BIPOC fighting back against the KKK and all the similar organizations and being told they’re bigoted and wrong because it’s not every white person that’s a racist. Of course it’s not that every white person is a racist, and of course it’s not that every man is a monster, but to grab attention and make a statement, you have to trim the nuance out and pick the most important piece out or else your protest just gets lost in the noise.
Protests are a very truncated form of communication and there are many people here on Lemmy that are pointedly forgetting or ignoring that fact in their outrage and offense in response to this protest.
They’re not alleged oppressors. Women’s rights in this country have always been an uphill battle, and we were already quite a ways away from proper equity before the MAGA crowd and the republicans started rolling things back. Is the ACAB sentiment bigotry? Are BIPOC communities bigoted for being wary of white politics and actions?
There are two genders in this country: Cis-male, and political. If you’re not cis-male, you’re at a disadvantage out of the gate, and it is far from unreasonable for women or people in general to be wary and suspicious when it comes to their safety. I have no misandrist views, but I am keenly aware of my disadvantages and vulnerabilities when it comes to interactions with cis-men, particularly in romantic or sexual contexts.
I voted for Harris, the whole point of the protest is that men overwhelmingly voted for trump, so they should protest all men. I’m absolutely just an alleged oppressor here, not actually one, and I’m being looped in solely because of my sex.
You have every right to be weary about anyone you want. But this isn’t just “being weary” it’s putting everyone of a certain sex into a group and shutting them out. It’s akin to the people who say “the only people who have stolen from me are black, so I won’t hire any black people.” It’s just racism/misandry, regardless of whether or not the suspicions have roots in reality.
Refusing to engage in sex or relationships is not “shutting people out”, it’s exercising bodily and personal autonomy. This issue is a potato in a world of apples and oranges and cannot be compared meaningfully to other issues. Is a lesbian the equivalent of a racist for being entirely uninterested in men? Is an asexual person a bigot because they refuse to have sex with anyone?
The assertions you are making are a moot point if you value consent at all. If women do not consent to be in relationships or have sex, that needs to be the end of the discussion without coercing them to change their minds by calling them bigots for their refusal to consent.
We both agree that they 100% have the right to do this. You don’t need to convince me of that. The thing is that these two things are not mutually exclusive; they are using the right to bodily and personal autonomy to shut people out. No amount of spin will change this. It’s the whole point of the protest, or at least ostensibly so.
I’ve been very clear about my position: they are blaming all men because of the actions of some men. That’s the misandry. Trying to equate this to (paraphrased) “you must thing lesbians are misandrists too!” is either just a disingenuous spin, or you aren’t trying to understand.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I’m just pointing out that their blatant misandry is misandry.
If you are so intent upon discussion of this matter as being an issue of misandry, I certainly hope that you are as staunchly against misogyny and intend to do far more than just voting for Kamala to protect women in this country.
That is my main concern. Men will not suffer irreparable harm from the consequences of the coming Trump administration anywhere near the same way women will. I will assume that you will consider this to be misandrist as well, but I have little regard for the concerns and complaints of men in this matter because for women, this is quite literally a matter of life and death.
Trying to harp on the “misandry” part of this is not productive towards the goal of the protest which is the protection of women’s rights and lives against the coming onslaught.
Tu quoque fallacy.
Well, you’d be wrong because I wholeheartedly agree.
I’m not trying to harp on anything. I called out some misandry, and then a bunch of people have jumped in to defend that prejudice. All I’ve done is defend my position. You act like I’m following 4B people around making sure to shout misandry any chance I get.
Yours is a voice in a chorus in the response to this article on Lemmy. The majority of the comments on this article and similar ones are calling out the “misandry” and shouting down commenters who disagree with them. The predominant sentiment appears to be men interpreting this as an indiscriminate punishment and expressing that they are personally aggrieved and offended by this protest because they’re “one of the good ones”.
Right now, if you want to be “one of the good ones”, you need to be turning around and fighting the men who are expressing entitlement in the face of this protest as well as the men who started out from the position of “your body, my choice”. Simply stating that you are an ally is not enough. As a man, you have the privileged position of being able to speak to other men on a more level playing field to try to convince them of the gravity of the impending attack on women’s rights without being accused of being “emotional”, “hysterical”, or “misandrist” just for participating in the conversation.
Again with the tu quoque. Does your abandonment of the point to focus solely on ignorantly attacking what you imagine I do in real life mean you realize that I made a good point? I don’t disagree with what you say here, but, fuck, to spend this whole time shitting on men and making up the worst about me, and then turn around and demand I act in a certain way takes a lot of fucking nerve. If you want men to be allies, I suggest stop defending when people act like they are all guilty for Trump being elected.
This is tied into the problem that the left has with a lot of protests and campaigns. The real/best answers are always nuanced, but if you try to fit that into a meme, or in a slogan, or in a soundbyte, it just ends up being garbled gibberish. The “Not All Men” argument obstinately ignores the fact that having a nuanced discussion through a megaphone at a protest just does not work. Of course it is not all men, but it is a large enough proportion to be seriously worried about.
This is similar to BIPOC fighting back against the KKK and all the similar organizations and being told they’re bigoted and wrong because it’s not every white person that’s a racist. Of course it’s not that every white person is a racist, and of course it’s not that every man is a monster, but to grab attention and make a statement, you have to trim the nuance out and pick the most important piece out or else your protest just gets lost in the noise.
Protests are a very truncated form of communication and there are many people here on Lemmy that are pointedly forgetting or ignoring that fact in their outrage and offense in response to this protest.