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Everyone was already constantly losing against the Prime Evils anyways. I think she does care somewhat about humanity in general or at least striving for what she thinks an elevated humanity might be, but she isn’t against doing whatever is necessary to achieve her goals. Her ends definitely did not justify the means. Still I think, given a choice, siding with Lilith still would have been better than what ended up getting in the end, which was
spoiler
Neyrelle disappearing and doing god knows what with Mephisto. She’s probably already being slowly corrupted.
All I am saying is that at least Lilith was hinting at a different path for humanity, whereas Mephisto has always just been straight up evil. Like…given those choices, who would you rather pick?
It’s the other way around. Imagine Lilith with another major demon’s power on top of hers. Lilith being the driver is better than Mephisto IMHO. Mephisto has no qualms saying what he plans for humanity. I think Lilith, having had a major hand in creating Sanctuary and humanity in the first place, would have had at least some overlapping interests that would have worked in our favor.
It’s like picking between one person who says they’re definitely going to kill you and another person who says they’ll maybe kill you if the need arises.
If someone tells you they’re going to slap you and another one doesn’t, you’re still getting slapped. And in this case, you didn’t get slapped by either but you might down the road.
Like I said, at least some of what Lilith wants aligns with humanity’s interests. Enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal. I am not saying Lilith is a saint, I am just saying you can at least bargain with her. We’re all just trying to pick the lesser of two evils.
Besides, siding with Mephisto just means doing the same shit we’ve been doing for the past 3 games and we all know how that worked out. Even if we’re getting slapped eventually, at least we aren’t doing the same thing that we already know hasn’t worked for us before.
Did you watch the lore videos that Blizzard put out just before Diablo IV released?
Lilith ruthlessly slaughtered every angel and demon that joined her and Inarius on Sanctuary. She did this because some angels and demons wanted to kill the Nephalem – first born spawn of angelic and demonic lineage that also included her son Rathma. The angels and demons feared that the Nephalem had all the angelic and demonic strengths, none of the weaknesses, and would eventually be able to overthrow the angels, demons, or both.
And what do we learn in the campaign?
spoiler
Lilith wants to destroy Inarius for killing Rathma and the prime evils to become all powerful so she can live in “peace”, but really… this means she would have to be, and rightly so, the supreme ruler.
Now, knowing what you know about the lore and what you learn in the campaign, would you want a ruler that has equally killed lesser angels, lesser demons, and more? Existence under Lilith would be one of totalitarian dictatorship of the worst kind – not really worth living, if you ask me.
Yes, I did watch the lore videos. None of them change my view on the matter actually. Angels and demons have been killing each other since the dawn of creation so I don’t see Lilith’s actions as any different or any more ruthless. Also, she did that in defense of the Nephalem, which humanity descended from, so I feel like I have more in common with her goals than Mephisto’s.
Existence under Lilith would be one of totalitarian dictatorship of the worst kind – not really worth living, if you ask me.
Angels and demons have been killing each other since the dawn of creation so I don’t see Lilith’s actions as any different or any more ruthless.
You think she is the lesser of the two evils, excuse the pun, in this particular situation? She made the same choice, to resort to mass murder of her brother and sisters, instead of letting a mass murder of Nephalem take place – eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.
Actually, she committed mass murder because she feared her son, Rathma would be killed… she didn’t care about humanity. She only cared about her spawn…
spoiler
and now that we know Rathma is dead, what better will she be? that is the point, she has nothing to care about anymore. What little she cared for humanity died with Rathma; and we see that cruelty and malice with how she dealt with Inarius (not saying Inarius is innocent, but…)
Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s terrible in the grand scheme of things. I just think that humanity being descendants of the Nephalem have more interests that align with Lilith compared to Mephisto and that might ultimately lead to a change in the never ending eternal conflict. For example, I think she would have wanted to protect Sanctuary itself, whereas both the heavens and the hells wouldn’t give two shits about destroying it if it served their purposes. I also disagree about the part where she didn’t care about humanity, because humanity is just essentially the children of her spawn. Plus, wasn’t Uldyssian a human who later regained his Nephalem powers? So its there, just hidden by the Worldstone tweaks that Inarius did.
and we see that cruelty and malice with how she dealt with Inarius
spoiler
If my “husband” murdered my son and then impaled me through a wall with a spear and I was in a position to do something about it after the fact, I’d stab and kill him too lol.
Lilith isn’t great…I just don’t think Mephisto is the answer. That’s what I mean by choosing the lesser evil…he’s the worse choice out of the two. At least humanity has a bond with Lilith through being part of her extended family.
One question for you since you seem knowledgeable about the lore: What happened to the Nephalem after D3? In D3 the player character is a nephalem and in D4 we’re just some random human as far as I know. And that’s fine. I just want to know what happened to the player characters of D3 in the transit to D4.
Everyone was already constantly losing against the Prime Evils anyways. I think she does care somewhat about humanity in general or at least striving for what she thinks an elevated humanity might be, but she isn’t against doing whatever is necessary to achieve her goals. Her ends definitely did not justify the means. Still I think, given a choice, siding with Lilith still would have been better than what ended up getting in the end, which was
spoiler
Neyrelle disappearing and doing god knows what with Mephisto. She’s probably already being slowly corrupted.
All I am saying is that at least Lilith was hinting at a different path for humanity, whereas Mephisto has always just been straight up evil. Like…given those choices, who would you rather pick?
Man…Lemmy really needs inline spoilers.
Now imagine Mephisto outside of the soulstone but with another major demon’s power on top of his.
That’s what Lilith would have been after consuming him. The Neyrelle dumb decision is a separate issue.
It’s the other way around. Imagine Lilith with another major demon’s power on top of hers. Lilith being the driver is better than Mephisto IMHO. Mephisto has no qualms saying what he plans for humanity. I think Lilith, having had a major hand in creating Sanctuary and humanity in the first place, would have had at least some overlapping interests that would have worked in our favor.
It’s like picking between one person who says they’re definitely going to kill you and another person who says they’ll maybe kill you if the need arises.
Again, that’s not any better.
If someone tells you they’re going to slap you and another one doesn’t, you’re still getting slapped. And in this case, you didn’t get slapped by either but you might down the road.
Like I said, at least some of what Lilith wants aligns with humanity’s interests. Enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal. I am not saying Lilith is a saint, I am just saying you can at least bargain with her. We’re all just trying to pick the lesser of two evils.
Besides, siding with Mephisto just means doing the same shit we’ve been doing for the past 3 games and we all know how that worked out. Even if we’re getting slapped eventually, at least we aren’t doing the same thing that we already know hasn’t worked for us before.
I feel like battling Mephisto and winning at least keeps humanity alive in its current form.
Lilith might actually enslave everyone.
Did you watch the lore videos that Blizzard put out just before Diablo IV released?
Lilith ruthlessly slaughtered every angel and demon that joined her and Inarius on Sanctuary. She did this because some angels and demons wanted to kill the Nephalem – first born spawn of angelic and demonic lineage that also included her son Rathma. The angels and demons feared that the Nephalem had all the angelic and demonic strengths, none of the weaknesses, and would eventually be able to overthrow the angels, demons, or both.
And what do we learn in the campaign?
spoiler
Lilith wants to destroy Inarius for killing Rathma and the prime evils to become all powerful so she can live in “peace”, but really… this means she would have to be, and rightly so, the supreme ruler.
Now, knowing what you know about the lore and what you learn in the campaign, would you want a ruler that has equally killed lesser angels, lesser demons, and more? Existence under Lilith would be one of totalitarian dictatorship of the worst kind – not really worth living, if you ask me.
Yes, I did watch the lore videos. None of them change my view on the matter actually. Angels and demons have been killing each other since the dawn of creation so I don’t see Lilith’s actions as any different or any more ruthless. Also, she did that in defense of the Nephalem, which humanity descended from, so I feel like I have more in common with her goals than Mephisto’s.
So would existence under any of the Prime Evils.
You think she is the lesser of the two evils, excuse the pun, in this particular situation? She made the same choice, to resort to mass murder of her brother and sisters, instead of letting a mass murder of Nephalem take place – eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.
Actually, she committed mass murder because she feared her son, Rathma would be killed… she didn’t care about humanity. She only cared about her spawn…
spoiler
and now that we know Rathma is dead, what better will she be? that is the point, she has nothing to care about anymore. What little she cared for humanity died with Rathma; and we see that cruelty and malice with how she dealt with Inarius (not saying Inarius is innocent, but…)
Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s terrible in the grand scheme of things. I just think that humanity being descendants of the Nephalem have more interests that align with Lilith compared to Mephisto and that might ultimately lead to a change in the never ending eternal conflict. For example, I think she would have wanted to protect Sanctuary itself, whereas both the heavens and the hells wouldn’t give two shits about destroying it if it served their purposes. I also disagree about the part where she didn’t care about humanity, because humanity is just essentially the children of her spawn. Plus, wasn’t Uldyssian a human who later regained his Nephalem powers? So its there, just hidden by the Worldstone tweaks that Inarius did.
spoiler
If my “husband” murdered my son and then impaled me through a wall with a spear and I was in a position to do something about it after the fact, I’d stab and kill him too lol.
Lilith isn’t great…I just don’t think Mephisto is the answer. That’s what I mean by choosing the lesser evil…he’s the worse choice out of the two. At least humanity has a bond with Lilith through being part of her extended family.
One question for you since you seem knowledgeable about the lore: What happened to the Nephalem after D3? In D3 the player character is a nephalem and in D4 we’re just some random human as far as I know. And that’s fine. I just want to know what happened to the player characters of D3 in the transit to D4.