Google is offering a far more pared-down solution to the court’s ruling that it illegally monopolized search
Can we just stop and appreciate for a moment what a fucking outrage it is that Google is allowed to negotiate its own punishment at all?
You are allowed to suggest sentencing. This isn’t preferential treatment to Google. Of course, the judge doesn’t have to listen to anybody’s suggestions, but you are definitely allowed to make them.
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They can keep chrome if they open source everything and remove all tracking, telemetry, and calling home of any sort, artificial crippling of addons via manifestV3, stop blocking blockers, stop injecting ads, stop breaking APIs, stop asynchronous and default DNS, stop forcing safebrowsing (URL monitoring).
What else have I missed?
They would still have disproportionate control over web standards. They should not be allowed to keep Chrome/Chromium under any circumstances.
I still don’t see how a standalone web browser survives financially. It seems like Firefox is always near death and has to make compromising decisions. Do you have any thoughts on how this ought to work?
I think we might have to get used to the idea of paying for software again, if we want to sustain the development of good quality, privacy respecting products
I absolutely agree with you, but it just doesn’t seem viable at this point.
I think it would thrive under a non-profit like the Linux foundation. It doesn’t need to make money. It’s a critical piece of our tech infrastructure, just like Linux, openssl and other open source projects. Having it in the hands of an ad company whose interests are against the open internet and open standards is not okay.
I too want to know more about this. Also, what happens to all the Chromium based browsers once Google doesn’t maintain it? Edit: I use Firefox and will continue to do so.
Such an overengineered browser and set of web standards should not survive, you are very perceptive!
Time has come to revise those to make maintaining a web browser accessible for more than two enormous companies.
If you look at Gemini attentively, you’ll see that it’s functional enough for a lot of what we do with the Web.
And for people who like wasm, ws and such, and think modern web should be saved - there are still ways to create a narrowed down standard only for that set, not for everything at once.
I personally think this is all bullshit and some kind of PostScript-based new hypertext system is needed.
There’s loads of ways you can monetise being the window through which billions of hours of attention are spent every day.
It’s not working for Firefox because they just don’t have many users any more. I haven’t checked recently but it’s less than 5% market share or something.
This point comes up a lot, but how does Photoshop survive? If chrome were split, Im sure they would find ways to make it work.
Corporate licensing would probably be the #1 way they could survive easily. The general public sees alternatives as “junk” to the main thing when it comes to tech. This, imo, is why Firefox is near death.
Now idk if the licensing route would be better or worse for us.
Why should it be a problem if factored out Chrome becomes insignificant in the long term? It’s precisely the reason behind antimonopolism.
pushing web standards in their user-hostile favour
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… And most importantly, stop making it default browser in the most popular OS in the planet.
We don’t need to pay bribes to stay the default search engine so long as we get to keep making the monopolist browser that bans adblockers.
Chrome is the exact thing they shouldn’t keep. Their main weapon together with the search engine.
Anything but Chrome.
It’d be cool if at some point in the future Android and their Advertisement business were forced to split. Be a dream if they had to make Android open source again like it used to be.
IMHO that kind of advertisement business should be plain illegal. There are parts of it which are cheating, ultimately aimed at plausible deniability for “pay to be recommended” stuff. And what’s not cheating there, is something worse - commercial surveillance.
Advertisement relates to competition for customer’s attention the same way as lying relates to competition for listener’s approval. It’s just harmful.
I wish I could get found guilty and still be able to negotiate on equal footing with the prosecution about what my punishment was going to be.
no.
Normally I would laugh at them offering to resolve a second case to avoid judgement in the first one, but sadly they probably have enough influence to make it happen.
Three years isn’t nearly long enough. Chrome needs to go, as does their dominance in search, android, YouTube and email. That cannot all be one company, under a giant advertising umbrella. Split them up into three companies. Chrome and advertising cannot stay together.
we cannot have android under another big tech company
FFS the Chrome thing is nothing even. Who would even want it?
it’s a huge deal for google. they control the browser used by the vast majority of users, and the engine behind the one (such as edge, opera, vivaldi, etc) used by still more. they rely on those users to see and interact with ads to make money.
besides the obvious–driving traffic to their web properties that have their ads; they get to siphon off all that sweet user data which makes their ads ‘more valuable’, and control addon functionality and restrictions as well as the primary ‘marketplace’ where those addons come from. their ultimate goal of killing off ad blockers completely, the limits mv3 puts on adblockers is just the next step in that direction.
should a third-party acquire control over chrome’s development, mv3 gets shredded. restrictions and limitations on adblockers get scaled-back or reverted outright.
it also allows them to push web standards in whatever direction they feel like
All good points, but even without Chrome they became one of the biggest companies in the history of Earth. Even without Chrome they’ll still have Android and will undoubtedly spit out a Chromev2 browser experience that suckers will flock to - and even without Chrome they’ll still likely control all of that search traffic.
Hey if it kills their fingerprinting plans, I’m all for it, but are they going to be prevented from developing a browser? That’s like not being allowed to develop a car. Which - again, fine by me, but still unlikely.
Chrome, as the damn-near-monopoly rendering engine, gives Google hegemony over web standards. That’s incredibly valuable because it puts them in a position to (e.g.) inflict DRM on the world.
Fair point.
Their desperation to hold onto it speaks volumes about how valuable it is to them. I’m sure they get tons of juicy browsing data that they don’t want to give up.
Yes but how will some other company who doesn’t run a successful ad network make aenough money from owning Chrome browser to keep it going?
It’s a good question because maintaining a modern web browser is a complicated and expensive project, which any potential buyer would have to sustain financially somehow. Chrome without the integrated ad service business would probably be highly unprofitable - so why would any business take it on?
The only real answer I can come up with is pretty ugly: data mining. Lots of services are dependent on Chrome that can’t just move to a new platform on short notice. Chrome is not just the web browser, it’s also the web engine for most mobile apps (a lot of apps are just stripped-down Chrome with a hard-coded server target).
Chrome has basically sucked all the air out of the room for other browser projects, so maybe taking it away from Google will create some space for new projects to grow… but it’s hard to see any of them becoming well-developed and trustworthy for things like health data, government services, financial transactions &etc anytime soon.
but it’s hard to see any of them becoming well-developed and trustworthy for things like health data, government services, financial transactions &etc anytime soon.
I honestly don’t See the Relation to Chrome.
You’re suggesting that a PWA running on Firefox isn’t suitable for this?
Oh no, Firefox is fine, possibly better than Chrome in that aspect. I’m thinking more about any other browser projects that might come up if Chrome is taken from Google and then collapses.
Or, what happens if a potentially bad actor acquires Chrome, and where does that leave all of the apps that are built around it?
Then they will Switch to another Browser, or there will be a drop-In replacement for Electron.
It’s Not that hard for the developers to Block Chrome then
I really want apple to switch to duckduckgo or ecosia as default now.
Startpage is also an option.
I don’t get the boner the feds have for making Google sell Chrome. Maintaining a browser looks like a huge investment and as bad as Google is, there are much worse companies that would jump at the chance to buy it. Imagine some Tencent-tier corporation making you pay to have the ability to install extensions.
Google can Set Standards to their own Advantage, e.g. with regards to Tracking which reinforces their Monopoly on Things Like Ads, the Same reason they crippled all the AdBlockers with ManifestV3 on Chromium-based Browsers
And the only alternative that isn’t Chromium-based is Firefox. (Or Safari with WebKit). All other Browsers use Chromium
So it would be really good for everyone if they were forced to sell Chrome
Chrome’s ubiquity is bad for browsers.
I’m glad I switched back to Firefox after learning that Google removed AdNauseam from their addon store. It’s an app that clicks ads in addition to blocking them. It wasn’t breaking any rules, but google removed it and since there wasn’t sufficient backlash it was never restored.
That kind of scummy behavior should never be rewarded with continued patronage.
Any company can do that. That’s why it’s more important to have new browsers (THAT AREN’T CHROMIUM, LOOKING AT YOU EDGE) for competition. Making a company sell the browser used by the majority of people is absolutely not the answer. That’s gambling.
No, not every company can afford to Bulldoze the competition in the Browser Market because they have indefinite deep pockets from the Ad Business.
If that unfair advantage goes away there will be more competition again in the Browser Segment .
Also Marketshare can grow and shrink quick
With the expected costs of a web browser by the general public being $0, what company would want it that isn’t going to do that? Even Firefox survives off ad revenue. There is no “browser market”, there’s an ad market.
I’d also imagine Google won’t be prevented from owning a browser indefinitely - if it’s still worth it they’ll create a new browser and try to recapture the market, further diversifying the market.
Gambling? LOL.
The normal solution to a monopoly is forced breakup and divesture. Why does Google deserve to be above the law?
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Pretty sure you totally misinterpreted their intent, mate.
