I’m more aligned with Sanders than the democrats. D just feels like neoliberalism protected by identity politics when we need to focus on class issues. Lots of working people can get behind the same idea of wealth inequality. Identity politics has fragmented the focus. I don’t give a shit about Target/rando corp having rainbow clothes: when lots of people cannot afford the clothes, then that’s a problem to solve.
The problem is that there are people who really fucking care about those rainbow clothes. And those people don’t think a subset of our population should exist. That’s why it’s something to give a fuck about.
You don’t have to be gay to give a shit about these things. They’re talking about ending marriage equality (or “leave it up to the states” which I’m sure won’t lead to chaos when states decide not to acknowledge people’s marriage certificates).
It’s less about what they did than didn’t do. There’s been inroads made because of identity politics, but now it feels somewhat pointless. Instead of being the “big tent” party, the Dems are the party of many tents. That means working class people look at it, say, “I’m not part of some special group, so I don’t matter.” And they turn red or just “not Dems.” A lot of people didn’t have improvements in their lives over the last 4 years.
Absolutely, some groups are more negatively impacted by others, but systemic racism is invisible to many. Meanwhile, things are more expensive, salaries can’t keep up with inflation, we’re talking about trillionaires in 10 years.
I don’t identify as a democrat. They can talk all they want, but I have no faith in the party. I fit in several identity politics groups, but that doesn’t matter while people struggle with housing, food… it’s just a distraction to divide us further rather than focusing on the shared element that every day people are facing.
That means working class people look at it, say, “I’m not part of some special group, so I don’t matter.”
In fairness, there haven’t been a lot of indicators that the working class matters to Democrats. In fact, they got a few very public demonstrations that when given the opportunity, Democrats will not act in the best interests of workers.
The problem isn’t that Democrats defend trans people too much (because they fucking don’t. They ran republican anti-trans hate in their own ads last election.) The problem is that Democrats don’t also fight for workers.
Democrats should openly and viciously fight for every tent they (falsely claim to) represent. Not just the ones that are convenient at the moment.
On a personal level, it’s starting to feel like a distraction, and maybe even a manufactured one.
So we should just abandon every vulnerable minority on the grounds that protecting them or fighting for them in any way would just play into Republicans’ attempts to distract?
It’s only a distraction if you think solidarity can exist with only one group at a time. Or are looking for an excuse to drop solidarity with some groups because solidarity takes effort and involves treating voters as humans with agency.
Why would you list pride merch in Target as one of the problems with the Democrats if that’s not one of their problems?
Do you have anything to support this hypothesis that supporting vulnerable groups was what cost them the election instead of them being the party of the status quo? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding?
Like I said, I’m with you that they need to focus on economics that has an effect on people’s lives. I just don’t follow your other point.
It’s ok to admit that your initial comment was perhaps made in haste, and you’ve since realized that you were wrong.
We’re all adults here (presumably), and I think most of us here would appreciate the honesty. It’s ok to be wrong… And it’s even better to learn that you were wrong, and have a chance to remedy that.
Doubling down on something you know is bullshit just to save face is dumb. Who cares?
But… You brought it up? Nobody else was talking about it.
Are you just disappointed that people are talking about it? Isn’t it a bit unreasonable to demand other people avoid a subject that you don’t like? You’re free to not engage. I’m really just confused who you’re talking about that is saying this stuff, especially since you said the Target thing.
I’m more aligned with Sanders than the democrats. D just feels like neoliberalism protected by identity politics when we need to focus on class issues. Lots of working people can get behind the same idea of wealth inequality. Identity politics has fragmented the focus. I don’t give a shit about Target/rando corp having rainbow clothes: when lots of people cannot afford the clothes, then that’s a problem to solve.
The problem is that there are people who really fucking care about those rainbow clothes. And those people don’t think a subset of our population should exist. That’s why it’s something to give a fuck about.
You don’t have to be gay to give a shit about these things. They’re talking about ending marriage equality (or “leave it up to the states” which I’m sure won’t lead to chaos when states decide not to acknowledge people’s marriage certificates).
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I agree with you that the Democrats need to focus on economic issues, but I’m not following on the “identity politics.”
What did the Democrats propose to do about pride merch in Target?
It’s less about what they did than didn’t do. There’s been inroads made because of identity politics, but now it feels somewhat pointless. Instead of being the “big tent” party, the Dems are the party of many tents. That means working class people look at it, say, “I’m not part of some special group, so I don’t matter.” And they turn red or just “not Dems.” A lot of people didn’t have improvements in their lives over the last 4 years.
Absolutely, some groups are more negatively impacted by others, but systemic racism is invisible to many. Meanwhile, things are more expensive, salaries can’t keep up with inflation, we’re talking about trillionaires in 10 years.
I don’t identify as a democrat. They can talk all they want, but I have no faith in the party. I fit in several identity politics groups, but that doesn’t matter while people struggle with housing, food… it’s just a distraction to divide us further rather than focusing on the shared element that every day people are facing.
In fairness, there haven’t been a lot of indicators that the working class matters to Democrats. In fact, they got a few very public demonstrations that when given the opportunity, Democrats will not act in the best interests of workers.
The problem isn’t that Democrats defend trans people too much (because they fucking don’t. They ran republican anti-trans hate in their own ads last election.) The problem is that Democrats don’t also fight for workers.
Democrats should openly and viciously fight for every tent they (falsely claim to) represent. Not just the ones that are convenient at the moment.
The Democrats are the incompetent defenders
Incompetent implies that they tried and failed. Not failed to try.
I agree at the general prescription for the party. On a personal level, it’s starting to feel like a distraction, and maybe even a manufactured one.
So we should just abandon every vulnerable minority on the grounds that protecting them or fighting for them in any way would just play into Republicans’ attempts to distract?
Oh yeah! Definitely what I’m saying in good faith! /s
Focus on what an actual aligned group can: our class. We’d help those groups and more if we stopped doing this.
I say I agree with someone and I get bad faith questioning back.
It’s only a distraction if you think solidarity can exist with only one group at a time. Or are looking for an excuse to drop solidarity with some groups because solidarity takes effort and involves treating voters as humans with agency.
I’m still not following then.
Why would you list pride merch in Target as one of the problems with the Democrats if that’s not one of their problems?
Do you have anything to support this hypothesis that supporting vulnerable groups was what cost them the election instead of them being the party of the status quo? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding?
Like I said, I’m with you that they need to focus on economics that has an effect on people’s lives. I just don’t follow your other point.
It’s a joke because a bunch of people on the right got mad over Target.
This is an opinion. I’m okay with my feelings being wrong.
Then aren’t you doing the thing you’re complaining about? Choosing to discuss identity politics over economics?
I don’t want to talk about it. Other people are?
It’s ok to admit that your initial comment was perhaps made in haste, and you’ve since realized that you were wrong.
We’re all adults here (presumably), and I think most of us here would appreciate the honesty. It’s ok to be wrong… And it’s even better to learn that you were wrong, and have a chance to remedy that.
Doubling down on something you know is bullshit just to save face is dumb. Who cares?
But… You brought it up? Nobody else was talking about it.
Are you just disappointed that people are talking about it? Isn’t it a bit unreasonable to demand other people avoid a subject that you don’t like? You’re free to not engage. I’m really just confused who you’re talking about that is saying this stuff, especially since you said the Target thing.