I have a buddy who did gun repairs, he fucking hates AR-15s. If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun. It’s a cheap, widely available platform that has cheap and widely available ammo, it just fucking works, it’s easy to care for, easy to use, pretty standard maintenance, and will kill what you need it to. They’re lethal much further out than video games imply, because otherwise they’d completely wreck the balance of the game.
Edit: I asked him for his specific beef with ARs, this was his response.
They’re a bitch to clean. There’s lots of places that need to be cleaned that can’t be reached easily, tons of little pockets and grooves you can’t get into; requires a dental pick, star shaped cleaning patches, and a shit load of cotton swabs to get through.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it. You will not be able to field strip this rifle if it’s jammed out of battery.
Aluminum gas blocks are apparently very popular, and they will corrode to failure at the gas tube port.
The extractor pin will often shatter in place, which causes intermittent failure while not looking wrong unless you know what you’re looking for.
Not really, no. It’s true that you aren’t going to be sniping anyone with a shotgun, and it’s also dependent on the shot you’re using, but shotguns are used to hit ducks in flight, turkey, and deer (among others), which are all usually going to be a bit further away than your average hallway. Generally, birdshot is worthless for people outside of very close range; I once ran a call where someone got shot with birdshot from across the street and they might as well have been hit point blank with an airsoft gun. If that had been buckshot or a slug, they would have been completely fried. The tradeoff that you do with shot is that a finer shot will have a wider and denser cloud of projectiles, but each of those projectiles has less mass (and therefore momentum) for penetrating power. Buckshot is basically throwing a handful of (smaller) old school ball shot at whatever you’re pointing at, and whatever you hit is going to have a bad time. I personally prefer the heavier 000 (triple-ought) buck to 00 (double-ought) buckshot, but either works great. A slug is going to have the best range and penetrating power; at close range, a slug will defeat any non-ceramic body armor, and people wearing ceramic are still going to be very unhappy. Of course, a slug also requires the best aim, because it’s just one solid chunk of metal. in either case, I would say that shotguns with buckshot and slugs are entirely appropriate for personal defense in or out of the home, and urban combat.
A couple things I have to note, also as someone that used to do gun repairs and basic gunsmithing for a shop back in the day:
They are a bitch to clean, but the right tools can make it a lot easier. Get a boresnake, proper cleaning solvent and lube, patches and brushes, both brass and regular brush. Watch a youtube video and learn how to properly clean it. Pop out the two push pins and field strip it and cleaning it is rather easy. For the upper run boresnake through with solvent and patches until clean, then run it through again with lube. EZ.
(Also learn to clean or at least do a half-ass clean if time is a problem after every range visit, we got so many firearms that looked like they hadn’t been cleaned in years and were always a real bitch to take care of. My personal favorite was someone upset that we couldn’t magically restore his “5 years in a garage in Florida humidity in a duffel bag never fired or cleaned” that was rusted and pitted to hell, and that it couldn’t be brought back to factory new for 30 bucks 😂)
I haven’t personally had this happen to me, but also range use will vary wildly from combat use so I can’t speak on this too much.
They are because aluminum is very popular for manufacturing. If taken care of properly, this won’t be an issue. See above that most people don’t clean and maintain theirs properly lmao
Skill issue. Memes aside a good quality BCG is important for this reason. More people need to learn how the parts work on their build and change out parts as necessary if they are having issues with certain parts of it.
While you did answer the question, it is better to clear a jam by pulling back on the charging handle, possibly while also mortoring the buttstock. Hitting the forward assist is just as likely to make the jam worse. (This also counts for AKs, this isn’t an AR only thing)
Some newer ARs don’t come with forward assists anymore, sometimes to prevent people from making jams worse, but usually cause they’re for sport and if your rifle malfunctions in a way that needs a forward assist, you can just take the L and get off the range to solve the issue.
Regardless, if you hit the forward assist, just make sure you’re in a position that this might be the last round you can fire without doing some maintenance.
But you are correct, ARs are as popular as they are for a reason. They’re reliable, easy to get parts for, and ammo (while expensive) is just about everywhere.
Thanks for the context. I was never interested in owning an AR myself, not to mention that it seems to me like they’re way overpriced due to a lot of them being glam guns. He did it for a living for years, so I took him at his word.
If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun
Disagree.
First, ammo starts at a minimum of 44cpr for 00 buck. Second, unless you get mag fed shotguns–which have their own problems–you’re getting a maximum of about 7 rounds. Third, if you’re talking about pump guns, it’s pretty easy to short stroke one in a high-stress situation. Gas guns are a different matter, but they’re pickier about ammo. Fourth–again, unless you have a mag fed shotgun–reloading is not nearly as quick and easy as it is with any firearm with a magazine.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it.
You mortar them; that usually gets it. I’ve had to do that a few times.
Yeah, a detail strip and clean is a bastard. But you don’t really need to do those very often. A field strip and clean is sufficient most of the time.
Your buddy may have an unfounded bias against them, as AR-15’s are in general extremely reliable, and don’t require much maintainence or cleaning for the most part, especially since most people don’t practice all that much.
A shotgun is a great choice for defense though, and often is a better choice than an AR.
I have a buddy who did gun repairs, he fucking hates AR-15s. If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun. It’s a cheap, widely available platform that has cheap and widely available ammo, it just fucking works, it’s easy to care for, easy to use, pretty standard maintenance, and will kill what you need it to. They’re lethal much further out than video games imply, because otherwise they’d completely wreck the balance of the game.
Edit: I asked him for his specific beef with ARs, this was his response.
They’re a bitch to clean. There’s lots of places that need to be cleaned that can’t be reached easily, tons of little pockets and grooves you can’t get into; requires a dental pick, star shaped cleaning patches, and a shit load of cotton swabs to get through.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it. You will not be able to field strip this rifle if it’s jammed out of battery.
Aluminum gas blocks are apparently very popular, and they will corrode to failure at the gas tube port.
The extractor pin will often shatter in place, which causes intermittent failure while not looking wrong unless you know what you’re looking for.
The range of a shotgun kinda sucks, though, right? Amazing for home defense though, especially if you don’t have acres of land.
Not really, no. It’s true that you aren’t going to be sniping anyone with a shotgun, and it’s also dependent on the shot you’re using, but shotguns are used to hit ducks in flight, turkey, and deer (among others), which are all usually going to be a bit further away than your average hallway. Generally, birdshot is worthless for people outside of very close range; I once ran a call where someone got shot with birdshot from across the street and they might as well have been hit point blank with an airsoft gun. If that had been buckshot or a slug, they would have been completely fried. The tradeoff that you do with shot is that a finer shot will have a wider and denser cloud of projectiles, but each of those projectiles has less mass (and therefore momentum) for penetrating power. Buckshot is basically throwing a handful of (smaller) old school ball shot at whatever you’re pointing at, and whatever you hit is going to have a bad time. I personally prefer the heavier 000 (triple-ought) buck to 00 (double-ought) buckshot, but either works great. A slug is going to have the best range and penetrating power; at close range, a slug will defeat any non-ceramic body armor, and people wearing ceramic are still going to be very unhappy. Of course, a slug also requires the best aim, because it’s just one solid chunk of metal. in either case, I would say that shotguns with buckshot and slugs are entirely appropriate for personal defense in or out of the home, and urban combat.
A couple things I have to note, also as someone that used to do gun repairs and basic gunsmithing for a shop back in the day:
(Also learn to clean or at least do a half-ass clean if time is a problem after every range visit, we got so many firearms that looked like they hadn’t been cleaned in years and were always a real bitch to take care of. My personal favorite was someone upset that we couldn’t magically restore his “5 years in a garage in Florida humidity in a duffel bag never fired or cleaned” that was rusted and pitted to hell, and that it couldn’t be brought back to factory new for 30 bucks 😂)
I haven’t personally had this happen to me, but also range use will vary wildly from combat use so I can’t speak on this too much.
They are because aluminum is very popular for manufacturing. If taken care of properly, this won’t be an issue. See above that most people don’t clean and maintain theirs properly lmao
Skill issue. Memes aside a good quality BCG is important for this reason. More people need to learn how the parts work on their build and change out parts as necessary if they are having issues with certain parts of it.
No they’re not. They tear down easily without tools. I can’t think of a part that can’t be cleaned easily. Maybe the gas tube?
There’s a button called a forward assist for that specific purpose.
Milspec blocks are not aluminum, he’s complaining about after-market, non-standard mods.
I’ve seen this on cheap BCGs. It’s annoying, but it’s easily fixable and won’t render the gun useless. You’ll just have to manually clear it.
I would guess they’re talking about a very complete cleaning? But that’s kinda true of any gun. Basic cleaning of an AR15 is not that complicated.
Eeeehhhh, never press that button. It’s a joke the Army played on itself.
Yeah, that’s why my last rifle doesn’t have a FA button.
While you did answer the question, it is better to clear a jam by pulling back on the charging handle, possibly while also mortoring the buttstock. Hitting the forward assist is just as likely to make the jam worse. (This also counts for AKs, this isn’t an AR only thing)
Some newer ARs don’t come with forward assists anymore, sometimes to prevent people from making jams worse, but usually cause they’re for sport and if your rifle malfunctions in a way that needs a forward assist, you can just take the L and get off the range to solve the issue.
Regardless, if you hit the forward assist, just make sure you’re in a position that this might be the last round you can fire without doing some maintenance.
But you are correct, ARs are as popular as they are for a reason. They’re reliable, easy to get parts for, and ammo (while expensive) is just about everywhere.
True. With my most recent rifle, I intentionally bought an upper receiver without one because I’m not usually in combat situations. Usually.
Thanks for the context. I was never interested in owning an AR myself, not to mention that it seems to me like they’re way overpriced due to a lot of them being glam guns. He did it for a living for years, so I took him at his word.
That’s where AR15s shine. You can build one pretty cheap and it’s workable. Cheaper than any AK you can buy in the US.
If you want all the tacticool glam bling, you can do that, but it’s excellent the without all that crap.
No problem. As an owner of a fully-custom glam gun, I recommend building a shitty one first to learn what breaks and what doesn’t.
Disagree.
First, ammo starts at a minimum of 44cpr for 00 buck. Second, unless you get mag fed shotguns–which have their own problems–you’re getting a maximum of about 7 rounds. Third, if you’re talking about pump guns, it’s pretty easy to short stroke one in a high-stress situation. Gas guns are a different matter, but they’re pickier about ammo. Fourth–again, unless you have a mag fed shotgun–reloading is not nearly as quick and easy as it is with any firearm with a magazine.
You mortar them; that usually gets it. I’ve had to do that a few times.
Yeah, a detail strip and clean is a bastard. But you don’t really need to do those very often. A field strip and clean is sufficient most of the time.
Your buddy may have an unfounded bias against them, as AR-15’s are in general extremely reliable, and don’t require much maintainence or cleaning for the most part, especially since most people don’t practice all that much.
A shotgun is a great choice for defense though, and often is a better choice than an AR.
I only clean mine because it’s white. It would run forever shooting the filthy, cheap ammo I buy.