I am working with a neighborhood organization to improve tree canopy in my urban area. I got involved with my neighborhood association and another org in an effort to build and strengthen my community. I would love to take more action but I’m not sure what or how. Starting to see now that working together with people helps make us more resilient
Not to derail this, because hey, nothing wrong with prepping/trying to help your community. But let’s not forget that 100 companies are responsible for 70% of emissions since 1988.
Woah, seems like I started something. I specifically said there was nothing wrong with doing your part, but that we shouldn’t forget it’s not our fault.
Which is why fighting for policy changes is important. One of the only things that can stop companies are government regulations
I fully understand what you’re saying and agree that on an individual level our impact is minimal compared to these companies, but I always wonder how fair it is to say they have to change and that’s the only solution.
My understand, and this is of the top of my head, is that 93 of those companies are oil/gas companies and the other 7 are cement. If they all gained a conscience today and stopped operations tonight, the world would be in chaos. People on an individual level would still need fuel to be able to get to supermarkets, and the supermarkets need fuel to get food moved around the supply chain.
Whilst I’m not saying it’s a solution and I’m using a simplified example to make my case, but if everyone prioritised buying electric cars as their next car, then manufacturers would speed up production of them and phase out combustion engine cars and vehicles. This would reduce the need for oil and at some point these top 100 polluters would either adapt or collapse.
What I’m trying to get at is the masses need to put pressure on these companies both through policy changes and purchasing power. I think it’s too easy to keep driving petrol cars and pointing at the oil companies as the bad guys.
It has to be a team effort, but those companies also engaged in a multi decade effort to underplay the impact of human activity (specifically theirs) on the climate and the dangerous associated with those changes.
Apparently due to a new clean fuel rule for ocean going vessels they stopped making sulphur oxide clouds and that is the main reason for there recent spikes in ocean water temperatures. It took 3 years to see a manual reduction in sulphur oxide pollution. No calamity in the world economy. Just an unexpected revelation of how much that pollution was cooling the ocean.
So yeah, we can’t just turn off the O&G sector. But we can set ourselves some pretty aggressive targets and make them.
True. But who uses those services and companies? Where do all our consumer goods come from? Our banking services we use, where do they invest our money so we can profit off interest rates?
We need electronics that last longer, are supported longer by companies we buy from. We need more ethical investment from our banks. We just need to buy a damn sight less from China like clothes, electronics, etc etc. We’re using those 100 companies as a proxy for our consumerism.
They’re not even companies that make the goods you buy. Almost all of them - exclusively - are fossil fuel energy companies.
If you don’t limit car use, and you don’t buy renewable power, then you’re absolutely part of the problem. If you give a shit about the future there’s plenty of action you personally can and should take.
I’ve literally listed several actions above in my reply. I’m not here to argue but we ultimately use those companies even if indirectly.
Yes, I was agreeing with you!
Just responding to your edit, I think it’s a great thing that you did start this wider conversation. I find it refreshing that on Lemmy people are having much more detailed conversations and raising these wider talking points. Back on the old place a lot of people would just try to drop short gotcha type replies that were repeated over and over just to get karma, it got boring.
The only thing I will say is I think you failed at not derailing the conversation slightly!
Yeah some very good reads in this thread, cool to see everyone actually having a conversation instead of contrarianism left and right (some of that here… but not as much). I think I was pretty clear, but some people seem to think I meant that you shouldn’t change your lifestyle.
I meant that we should be holding those companies accountable in conjunction with making personal changes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is that not just another frame of reference to shift responsibility elsewhere? Like lOoK At cHiNA WhAt cAn i poSsIbLy do?
Anything to stop action that would change our ways of living.
Then why are activists deflating SUV tires instead?
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Are they? In any case, a reason would be because SUVs take a lot of space for on average less than one inside. That’s space which is asphalt, and not available for pedestrians, bikes, trees, benches or other things that make cities a nice place to live.
But who buys their products? It always comes back to us and our actions
This response is frustrating. A company can have pressure put on and change actions more than “can everyone just spend 5 minutes”. To put pressure back on a consumer who does not have the ability to purchase time (via more employees) to handle the load of “5 more minutes” means that only the crazy will think they can make a difference.
Your response is generated from a successful captain planet propaganda campaign that successfully brainwashed a generation. You are technically right that no supply = no demand. You are technically right that “if 100% of humans stopped using and correctly educated themselves on further green washing pivots” then the 100 companies would stop.
Your comment is even more frustrating.
There is no collective will to “put pressure on companies” if people don’t individually recognize that their cultural consumption practices, behaviors, and expectations are not sustainable and that, INDIVIDUALLY, their behaviors must change.
For example, the only real way to put pressure on companies is through government action through something like a carbon tax.
If we, collectively and individually, don’t realize that such an action will have significant impact on your day to day behaviors that action is politically untenable and will immediately get voted out.
If there is no government pressure or individual pressure (since we refuse to acknowledge individuals as participants in climate change), then the companies who are most willing to reduce their costs and increase their profits will thrive and the climate is fucked.
Even on a very essential level of “it requires government action” requires vast amounts of individuals to work and sacrificial to make that a reality. How much are you willing to sacrifice to help candidates who will take this seriously? If you don’t believe you have an culpability, probably nothing.
I am about 75% sure that “It’s all the companies emitting” is an immensely clever astroturfing campaign that preys on people’s desire for their to be a big bad and to not believe that they should suffer even the slightest inconvenience.
Guess what? A large majority of what you would need to do to survive in a “there is external pressure on companies” world are things most can do today. Start spending money in companies today who are at least attempting to make sustainable practices work. Reduce your regular consumption today. Start spending money today to support research and development for solutions. Stop eating meat today. Start looking into alternative sources of energy personally, today. Look into increasing your home insulation today. Start organizing, talking, supporting, volunteering, today.
Stop pretending that you are not part of the problem. You are.
The real irony with that statement is that even if 70% is some “disconnected from the reality of our consumption and economic practices and can simple be shut of magically”, that still leaves an enormous amount of carbon emissions that are individual, and guess what, those still count and are just as real.
Some facts:
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17% of emissions in the US are light road vehicles (aka cars). Aircraft are another 8%. Are you advocating in your city for true alternatives?
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6% is residential. Are you supporting and seeking smaller, highly efficient homes, financially? Homes built with more sustainable materials?
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10% is agricultural, the large majority of this is meat. Are you eating less meat?
We could keep going.
I am about 75% sure that “It’s all the companies emitting” is an immensely clever astroturfing campaign that preys on people’s desire for their to be a big bad and to not believe that they should suffer even the slightest inconvenience.
It goes both ways. You’ve heard of the personal carbon footprint, right? Invented by oil companies so environmentalists would call people out for not doing enough, frustrating said targets of environmentalist ire to a point where a lot of people are intentionally polluting more, while also driving people into a sentiment of “I’ve done enough, now it’s everyone else’s fault” when they’ve reduced their own footprint to a minimum.
The only way for change to happen is political. Regulations work, telling people to stop eating meat and walk to work doesn’t, because you’ll never get more than maybe 1% of people to go along with it. Who wants to restrict themselves when other people don’t?
Basically as an individual, the only way your efforts mean anything is if you decide to go for some good old eco-terrorism. But it has to be enough for fossil company CEOs and board members to be legitimately scared to the point nobody wants to run those companies anymore.
Or if you’re a dictator selling gas, you can start a war and some of your customers will stop buying from you. That reduces gas consumption for a while until they find new sources, and might make some governments reconsider their foreign fossil fuel dependency.
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Did you bother to look at exactly which 100 companies these are?
Spoiler alert, they are oil energy production companies.
Got rid of your petroleum-burning car? Great! But I hope you don’t ever buy literally anything, because shipping still runs on petroleum. Fun fact, most semis get around 6 MPG.
Oh, also, don’t use the internet. Even if your local power is renewable, the electric grid on the whole runs on fossil fuels. Your house electric could be green, but the majority of the switches, routers, servers and miscellany of the rest of the internet sure don’t.
It’s unrealistic to expect everyone to completely disentangle their lives from using our nation’s energy production systems. Sure, if we all went completely off-grid, we’d generate less greenhouse emissions. Of course, millions would starve due to the impossibility of scaling small-scale agriculture to feed us all.
All of us are supported by a huge infrastructure based on burning fossil fuels. Without regulating that industry, the only choice we can make is to leave society entirely.
Good idea. New plan: don’t buy anything. Don’t even buy food. We did it boys, we saved the planet.
Carbon footprint is a term coined by the petroleum industry to move the responsibility from them to the end users
What is a better term that places responsibility on them?
You can not individualise a problem like climate change.
It requires collective action from governments.
You have to regulate the common use of fossil fuels out of existence (among other major changes) for us to have any hope.
They could, you know, stop making them…
They could. And then someone else would just make more to fill the gap.
We need a change in governance and economic structure. That said, individual actions do also have an impact, collectively.
Sold my car, eat a plant based diet, talk to people about climate change and what they can do, change pensions, investments etc. to greener banks. I imagine the majority of my carbon footprint is probably from electricity now. I’d like to get involved with local green politics at some point but it’s something I haven’t really done yet.
Good for you with investing green. Can you recommend a mutual fund?
Waaay more than I’m doing… But really we should be destroying our cars. I’m working on it, just verrrry slowly :P
- Advocate for more and denser housing. If you can walk to the store you don’t need to drive. Housing policy is climate policy.
- Advocate for public and non-automobile transit. EVs will not save us. Busses, trains, and bikes will.
- Ask tough questions at work about sustainability. Are we carbon neutral? What can we do to find out?
Why won’t EVs save us?
If everyone switched to EV cars there would surely be fewer emissions from motors but that would not be the only issue. One is the mining of metals for batteries and the cars themselves. That process, along with shipping parts around produces greenhouse gasses and environmental harm. Then consider that we are not removing carbon nor does EV cars combat the largest sources of greenhouse gases like coal/ natural gas, textile manufacturing, concrete, shipping, and beef. Additionally, the EVs need electricity to charge and if everyone on earth today switched to EVcars many of those would end up being powered by the coal power plants (although it would be a more efficient use of fossil fuel).
Electric vehicles are great and should be used. They do come with their own set of environmental problems to consider. It also worth noting that production and consumption of vehicles and everything else on the planet needs to slow. We simply have too many people doing too much. So if you have an old gas powered car that still runs, don’t throw it out to buy a new EV.
I need to point out that while its true that EVs use nickel, cadmium etc from such mines, the fossil industry uses about 4-5x as much in its gas, coal and oil based power plants, as well as the refining processes. Geothermal, solar and wind are options for EVs in place of fossil in terms of electric supply. LiFePO4 is an alternative to NMC chemistry L-Ion batteries in some cases, too (eg smaller EVs like ebikes, escooters etc). LiFePO4 takes up 1/3rd more space but isnt that much more heavy, it also lasts for bloody years and years compared to NMC. (Though NMC can be recycled easily if companies/Governments were willing to invest)
What about the “car-owner-virus” aka coronavirus that convinced everyone to stop taking the bus? I still see that used and new cars are selling at a premium.
I’m poor. So I ride the train to/from work, even though it’s 4x (or more) longer than driving.
That’s all I can afford at the moment.
That’s already a lot more than others, so thank you for that.
I attend public meetings with my city’s officials with the goal of encouraging the development of bicycle infrastructure. Ped and public transit too.
This is great. What do you see as the main hurdles to this and how do you speak to them effectively?
I plan on killing myself if it gets some dystopian type shit where I have to suck water from cockroaches titty or some shit.
Survival game devs are probably looking at this comment and taking notes.
Don’t worry we’ve trained the cockroaches to spit at you. This keeps you hydrated.
Great! More meat for Soylent Green!
I think the key to greater change in ourselves and our communities is through small changes. Thats the way to get me prepared for bigger changes that might be required further on down the road. So I do the following things for myself and to maybe influence others in feasible ways:
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Low-meat diet - do a vegetarian or pescatarian day every now and then, and reduce overall meat intake (I still love meat but save high meat days for special occasions)
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Switch up transportation on nice weather days. I have a car, motorcycle, and e-bike. The car is used primarily for trips that are in inclement weather, when I need extra safety (sketchy area, at night, or I’m not feeling well), or need to haul stuff. I use the motorcycle and ebike for everything else. Less/no emissions and puts me in a great mood.
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Always have camping utensils, thermos, and bags. Reusable bags for tons of situations. Camping utensils replace disposable utensils at eateries. Thermos for my bevs so no need to buy plastic bottled bevs or use plastic cups. I also always take my own food containers with me to restaurants and use those instead of the restaurants for take home leftovers and let me tell you - they really appreciate that.
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Thrift my outfits. Online and traditional thrift stores. I sell them for cheap on online sites or donate when I get tired of them. About half my wardrobe is thrifted.
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Be kind to others and myself. I think this is the most important thing. A good feeling goes a long way towards caring about bigger and bigger things. Keeps us all connected.
What are these online thrift stores? I’d like to check that out
Great idea with the reusable containers
ThredUp, Mercari, and Poshmark are my go-to’s right now. If theres something specific im looking for, sometimes eBay. There’s secondhand sites like DePop and Vinted that offer more specialty vintage items, and then other sites that offer secondhand luxury/designer.
Oh and if you get into thrifting make sure you get a de-piller. They take off all the little clothing nubs and make stuff look new.
If you are really savvy with tags and refined searches, Etsy is still an alright place to find awesome “vintage” (thrifty) stuff. It just takes a little bit of work but once you have sorted, it really is quite alright.
Not all meat is bad right? My understanding is that cattle farming is harmful to the environment because cows fart methane
Yes about methane and also that forests get cut down to make space for pasture.
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I’ve swapped planes for trains, omnivore diet for vegan, I travel by bus in my everyday life, and am a member of a car collective for those few times a year I actually need a car myself.
I don’t preach any of these things, but I talk about it / mention it when it’s brought up. Everyone somewhat close to me knows about my lifestyle. My philosophy is to show it’s not only possible to live like I am, but that I can still enjoy my life to the fullest in doing so.
I also support local organisations and political movements financially, and vote for the parties I believe have the best plans for the future.
Got any links for this car collective? I’m intrigued
I’m in Norway. There are plenty of different ones depending on where you live.
You pay a membership fee, and for the use of the car (based on hours used and kilometers travelled). You get a card which opens any car you’ve booked, and you are free to use it as you wish until your booked time is up. Then you return it to where you found it.
I’ve used it for moving (borrowing large vans), intercity travel during covid (to avoid the bus), and longer summer trips in the mountains. My go to car is a Skoda citigo. A small electrical vehicle. Just large enough for two people and their bags.
I started to become politically involved in a non-partisan, very low key way: I started approaching politicians, ask them for meetings and very kindly but determined ask about their agenda for climate protection. For that I connected with CCL-D (Germany) and ccl-eu (Europe) as well as with a local group, so we don’t operate in a vacuum. This is surprisingly efficient and while it requires some preparation and social skills, I works well for me.
How do they usually react? Or any other details you would like to share? And what is ccl?
It depends on the party. Some talk a lot. Some say how much they do to protect the climate. That is all good and part of what we want because these people must realize they want to protect the climate. Pressure is not conducive to personal change. When talking with them, we apply motivational interviewing, and our goal is to help them overcome their decision ambivalence and ambiguity towards climate action. We also come back and try to build a working relationship with them.
I’ve talked with local councillors down here but they were mostly powerless. The MP refused to see me on this and another matter I cant go into online.
I am working with a neighborhood organization to improve tree canopy in my urban area. I got involved with my neighborhood association and another org in an effort to build and strengthen my community. I would love to take more action but I’m not sure what or how. Starting to see now that working together with people helps make us more resilient.
I’m very interested in plants and growing food, which I think is valuable skill now and will only get more valuable. I would love to find ways to adapt agriculture to a shifting climate.
Another thing I’m doing which is simpler is some basic disaster preparedness. I have 20 gallons of water and a big box of non perishable food in my shed, and my wife and I have a plan of where to meet up in an emergency. It’s not “doomsday prepping” just a modest bit of preparation.
On water preparedness:
If your storing tap water, it’s generally shelf stable for about 6 months, so don’t forget to cycle it out.
If you have a tanked water heater, you probably don’t need supplemental water supplies. A hot water tank provides 100-300 liters of water that circulates on its own. That’s a whole bunch of water you don’t need to worry about stagnating. This obviously assumes your water tank isn’t at risk (i.e. a basement tank is no good when your risk is flooding).
Otherwise I’d recommend water treatment tablets. That’s a whole lot more water with (almost) none of the storage space and a much longer self life. Again depends on area, that won’t help you in a desert.
All good considerations for drinking water. I’ve also got 30 gallons stored for washing, etc. It gets cycled only every five years or so.
Oh that’s very good info about the water heater. So you’re saying that if my house lost power I could drink from that for 100-300 L? Good to know.
I knew about the 6 month cycle for water and I got tired of that chore so instead I just have unopened gallons. Those are fine, right?
Yup, obviously no pressure if there’s a municipal water problem, but you should be able to use the drain.
I’m not sure what the shelf life is on prepackaged water; probably varies by the water contents and the container itself. The advantage of smaller containers is if one goes bad you don’t lose all your water.
The single most effective thing you could possibly do for the planet, and something that’s dead simple and basically free: not having any children.
This is the right answer, and the one that many people hate to hear. Plenty of articles on this topic, but here’s one from Science.org that gets straight to the point:
The best way to reduce your carbon footprint is one the government isn’t telling you about
I am experimenting with various lifestyle choices that lower carbon footprint. It’s just me, of course, so a drop in a very large bucket in the grand scheme of things, but I figure you need to work some of these things out yourself before you know what to advocate to others?
A few things include:
- Cycling. I used to be a hardcore traditional cyclist but have taken to ebiking in recent years. Maybe a higher environmental footprint if you compare apples to apples, but what I’ve found is that I ebike far more than I ever regular-biked (it’s actually quite fun!), and that many trips that used to involve a car no longer do. My current experiment is trying out a fat-tire ebike to see if it’s better suited to winter riding as some claim? They certainly are a comfy commute!
- My home has gas central heating + baseboard electric in certain rooms. So I am experimenting with having the gas heat set low and spot heating certain rooms with electric to see what that does to my bills? Further down the line, I’m contemplating a heat pump to replace central A/C and get some winter heating that way.
- I am eating a lot less meat. Seems like a simple enough thing to do that I have read has an outsized benefit where climate is concerned? Doesn’t mean I’m always eating healthy, mind you. But if I’m at a Taco Bell, I’ll order the bean burrito instead of beef.
In terms of adapting, I have been experimenting with various neck-cooling devices. The jury is still out at this point, but they all seem to help with heat exhaustion to which I am rather prone.
Hello fellow e-biker! You and I have similar paths with the e-bikes and low meat diets. Glad to see others who are trying new things to reduce their carbon footprint. I think if enough people try at least one thing, it would effect greater change, so trying my best to do my part too.
These are great steps and I love that they’re not mega lifestyle changes but easy to do and make work for you. I’ve been eating less beef too. Not none, but less. And I’ve got a little idea been bouncing in my head for a while: Guinea pigs. They are common food in South America. They eat almost anything, take very little space, and I’ve never tried one but I gotta admit they look tasty and they are very sustainable. I’m probably going to catch hate for saying that but damnit they’re trying to convince us to eat bugs!
I have an in-law who’s from Peru and you’re right. Guinea pigs are what they call dinner there.
We once had a pet guinea pig and I remember him as being a little poop factory. I guess for maximum sustainability, you’d want to factor that into making compost to grow your vegetable garden or whatever?
Nothing. From India where the people are more concerned about getting food on the plate and the government is busy instigating hatred for power. We’re colossally fucked.
So sorry you’re going through that shit.
i ride my ebike everywhere around town, unfortunately thats the most i can do right now. betting on something giving with the huge corps thwt have made us think that the everyday person can make a large impact on climate change over them
If you’ve got somewhere for it you can charge it with solar, you know, makes it more climate friendly. Thought get one of the safer LifePO4 battery pack instead
I know that i break with the general vibes in this thread. I think climat change has gone too far too fast, and I don’t think there is any we as induviduals can do to stop it now. The politcians in my country talk about trying to limit plastic shopping bags and limiting driving by upping toll roads to hurt average Joe’s wallet to stop people from driving. In the mean time the tourist cruise industry were allowing to visit our ports are poluting more than the european car park combined. They are just going after the group with the smalles lobbiest group and the frewest layewers to green wash their next political cycle.
Anyways rant over. I have invested most of my money in devidens and i’m looking into buying a bigger property in to one of the few places in europe that scientists have estimated to be the least affected by climate change. Once I find something big enought we will move up north and beg to what ever is out there that mankind can invent something to revert the damage we have done.
Hey it’s also important to prepare ourselves for a changing climate so thank you for sharing.
Want to hear something to make your blood boil? COP28 is being held in UAE and run by an oil tycoon
I personally am much more optimistic about this. There exists something called “Green Premium” which is the extra price we consumers need to pay right now to reduce our emissions. Being from India, I can’t really afford some of those Green Premium and neither can I blame people around me getting Air Conditioning or improving their living standards by getting a car in such hot and humid conditions.
My realistic hope is that the Green Premium will come down enough or even be on par with the regular price eventually where it won’t even make economic sense to have such a huge carbon footprint. I see efforts towards this end and I’m confident we’ll pull through.
That said, I also think some of the big cities in places like India will be unfortunately uninhabitable by the time we get there (around 2050)
