If your country is being invaded, you don’t have a choice. War is a savage and cruel phenoma. It turns people into animals. What an invading side can do to civilians under occupation is beyond comprehension. The Nanking Massacre comes to mind in modern memory.
You may regard yourself as a pacifist and in the moral high ground, the women and children who get systematically raped and mutilated through no fault other than being a trophy for monsters to use, would think of you in another view.
I know I’m being brutal with my words, but the real fucking crime is the fucking invasion. Zelensky has to do everything to defend it’s existence.
Your argument comes down to “sacrices need to be made for the greater good”, right?
So, for a hypothetical, if Putin, for some insane reason, offered to leave Ukraine, respect historic border and even pay to rebuild, as long as Zelensky drowned a child with his own hands, would that be worth it? If it is, then what a bout 10 children? 1,000? 100,000? Where’s the line you draw of how much of a sacrifice you can make?
If Zelensky ordered his men to charge the Russian line unarmed as a distraction for another force, would that be a necessary sacrifice to defend Ukraine, or would it be a crime against humanity?
Or even for a less extreme example, the same as above, but Ukraine must agree to outlaw LGBT people and take aways women rights to vote. Would that be worth it or would compromising morals in that regard be too much?
You missed the point by so much it’s amazing your neighbor didn’t lose an eye.
Civilians will be raped and murdered by an invading military. Towns will be bombed and burned. Children taken from their families and sent thousands of miles away to be enslaved in factories or worse, a toy for an oligarch.
And ALL of that you’re fine with. Hand wave all of that away, because, by your own argument, a draft is more morally outrageous than all of that. Rape, murder, child sex slaves, ALL of that is worse than forcing people into the military.
If we’re really going to make an outrageous argument then here’s one for you. If society really has no right to an individual, then taxes and welfare should also be abolished. Who cares if the poor or mentally incapable starve? That’s not your problem. Individuals have no responsibility to society. They should just move if they can’t succeed.
Please show me exactly where in my comment I said I’m fine with the actions of the Russians, or said Ukraine draft is worse than Russias war crimes…
Oh you can’t? Because I never said anything remotely close to that and you’re just putting words in my mouth because you’re a simpleton that can only think in strict binaries and just doesn’t have the braincells required to comprehend any kind of nuance.
So let me try and make this easy for you. Pointing out Ukraine is doing a bad thing does not mean Russia isn’t also doing a much worse thing.
If society really has no right to an individual, then taxes and welfare should also be abolished.
Again, no nuance. Like some part of you must be aware that there’s a fundamental difference between paying taxes and being forced to lay down your life. Like in your black and white world does the existence of taxes justify the state to just murder whoever it doesn’t like? Because if they have a right to the individual to force them to pay taxes, then surely that’s the exact same as just murdering whoever they don’t like right? Definitely no shades of grey between those two things.
My entire comment was about how you missed the point.
I then came up with a ridiculous comparison, to illustrate how ridiculous your comparison was.
So let me reiterate my point. Is it worse to have a draft or is it worse for civilians to be murdered by the, potentially, millions. Including things like elderly and infirm being tortured before they’re executed, and children being shipped hundreds or thousands of miles from their home to be the toy of an oligarch.
Ukraine cannot get enough troops with volunteers. If you were leading the country, what would you do? Order a draft or let an invading military run free through your country, raping, pillaging, and murdering.
If your country is being invaded, you don’t have a choice. War is a savage and cruel phenoma. It turns people into animals. What an invading side can do to civilians under occupation is beyond comprehension. The Nanking Massacre comes to mind in modern memory.
You may regard yourself as a pacifist and in the moral high ground, the women and children who get systematically raped and mutilated through no fault other than being a trophy for monsters to use, would think of you in another view.
I know I’m being brutal with my words, but the real fucking crime is the fucking invasion. Zelensky has to do everything to defend it’s existence.
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So you think Ukrainians being genocided is preferable to Ukrainians being drafted?
Really weird take there.
Each person is a person who should have a right to decide the use and value of their own life.
“Ukrainians” aren’t a resource to be allocated for the greatest good.
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So you’d off yourself if you were drafted? Or do you think only Ukrainians are better off dead?
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Your argument comes down to “sacrices need to be made for the greater good”, right?
So, for a hypothetical, if Putin, for some insane reason, offered to leave Ukraine, respect historic border and even pay to rebuild, as long as Zelensky drowned a child with his own hands, would that be worth it? If it is, then what a bout 10 children? 1,000? 100,000? Where’s the line you draw of how much of a sacrifice you can make? If Zelensky ordered his men to charge the Russian line unarmed as a distraction for another force, would that be a necessary sacrifice to defend Ukraine, or would it be a crime against humanity?
Or even for a less extreme example, the same as above, but Ukraine must agree to outlaw LGBT people and take aways women rights to vote. Would that be worth it or would compromising morals in that regard be too much?
You missed the point by so much it’s amazing your neighbor didn’t lose an eye.
Civilians will be raped and murdered by an invading military. Towns will be bombed and burned. Children taken from their families and sent thousands of miles away to be enslaved in factories or worse, a toy for an oligarch.
And ALL of that you’re fine with. Hand wave all of that away, because, by your own argument, a draft is more morally outrageous than all of that. Rape, murder, child sex slaves, ALL of that is worse than forcing people into the military.
If we’re really going to make an outrageous argument then here’s one for you. If society really has no right to an individual, then taxes and welfare should also be abolished. Who cares if the poor or mentally incapable starve? That’s not your problem. Individuals have no responsibility to society. They should just move if they can’t succeed.
Please show me exactly where in my comment I said I’m fine with the actions of the Russians, or said Ukraine draft is worse than Russias war crimes…
Oh you can’t? Because I never said anything remotely close to that and you’re just putting words in my mouth because you’re a simpleton that can only think in strict binaries and just doesn’t have the braincells required to comprehend any kind of nuance.
So let me try and make this easy for you. Pointing out Ukraine is doing a bad thing does not mean Russia isn’t also doing a much worse thing.
Again, no nuance. Like some part of you must be aware that there’s a fundamental difference between paying taxes and being forced to lay down your life. Like in your black and white world does the existence of taxes justify the state to just murder whoever it doesn’t like? Because if they have a right to the individual to force them to pay taxes, then surely that’s the exact same as just murdering whoever they don’t like right? Definitely no shades of grey between those two things.
My entire comment was about how you missed the point.
I then came up with a ridiculous comparison, to illustrate how ridiculous your comparison was.
So let me reiterate my point. Is it worse to have a draft or is it worse for civilians to be murdered by the, potentially, millions. Including things like elderly and infirm being tortured before they’re executed, and children being shipped hundreds or thousands of miles from their home to be the toy of an oligarch.
Ukraine cannot get enough troops with volunteers. If you were leading the country, what would you do? Order a draft or let an invading military run free through your country, raping, pillaging, and murdering.