Russia has been credibly accused off displacing local populations, seizing homes, mass torture and sexual violence against civilians and abduction of children in occupied territories. There are numerous examples of Russian politicians stating openly that they seek to exterminate Ukrainian identity.
The only argument that Russia is not engaging in large scale genocide is that Ukraine has prevented them from doing so by force.
None of the instances of what you’re claiming have been disproportionate compared to any modern conflict if you actually run the numbers, and if you compare to western-backed wars such as the invasion of Iraq, the numbers pale in comparison. War is horrifying, and you can heavily criticise the invasion of Ukraine, but calling it a genocide simply doesn’t hold when you look at the numbers.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent
But how do you judge intent without numbers? I do believe the US didn’t have a genocidal intent in the invasion of Iraq, and didn’t commit genocide, but the ratio of civilians to military who died is disproportionately high compared to that of Ukraine invasion by Russia. I’m sure you can go to fox news of 2003 and find right wing talking heads, journalists and politicians talking of all Iraqi as terrorists to be eliminated. You can do the same for some deranged Russian nationalist politicians and journalists. How, other than numerically and by policy, can you judge the intent? I can determine Israel is enacting genocide against Palestinians because of the horrendous murder rates of civilians, including through forced starvation and besiegement, because of indiscriminate bombing against civilian infrastructure (which, like it or not, is rare in the invasion of Ukraine in comparison with even the invasion of Iraq), etc.
Putin kills Ukrainian civilians, not because of their religion or genetics or culture but to terrorise them into submission so that they encourage their military to give up so that he gets to plunder their land and resources.
This is very different to the universally accepted definition of genocide as applies to The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia.
Ireland is trying to get the ICJ to broaden the UN definition of genocide to include both the Ukraine and Gaza tragedies.
Idiots have decided the new definition of genocide is simply “when one side kills a bunch of people on the other side” and get angry when you point out how infantile that is.
Infantile indeed. The popularity of Marvel/DC movies is symptomatic.
It is the age of hyperbole and polarization. As if something is not a tragedy worthy of attention unless you can paint it as the worst thing ever.
And the solutions imagined are total fantasy. Jews aint leaving the Levant, neither are the Arabs.
I watched a BBC documentary which blew my mind recently, leaving no party looking clean in the Middle East conflict. Neither ProPal nor Zionist philosophy comes into it. The reality is too messy for the partisan minds: HyperNormalization: A Different Experience of Reality.
Being in my 60’s it has been years since I saw something so challenging. Since this is an anarchist community this should appeal although it is not hopeful. More like an examination of organised Chaos.
Why do you bring up tankies? I’m not talking about any communist state, I’m talking about the proto-fascist, contemporary Russian republic, and explicitly said you can condemn it.
You can simultaneously condemn the invasion of Ukraine and understand that false claims of genocide are harmful against people suffering genocide
Russia has been credibly accused off displacing local populations, seizing homes, mass torture and sexual violence against civilians and abduction of children in occupied territories. There are numerous examples of Russian politicians stating openly that they seek to exterminate Ukrainian identity.
The only argument that Russia is not engaging in large scale genocide is that Ukraine has prevented them from doing so by force.
None of the instances of what you’re claiming have been disproportionate compared to any modern conflict if you actually run the numbers, and if you compare to western-backed wars such as the invasion of Iraq, the numbers pale in comparison. War is horrifying, and you can heavily criticise the invasion of Ukraine, but calling it a genocide simply doesn’t hold when you look at the numbers.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent.
“merely” planning a murder is illegal, same with genocide.
there’s this weird idea that an event can only ever be a genocide after all the victims have died. that’s not true, and never has been.
But how do you judge intent without numbers? I do believe the US didn’t have a genocidal intent in the invasion of Iraq, and didn’t commit genocide, but the ratio of civilians to military who died is disproportionately high compared to that of Ukraine invasion by Russia. I’m sure you can go to fox news of 2003 and find right wing talking heads, journalists and politicians talking of all Iraqi as terrorists to be eliminated. You can do the same for some deranged Russian nationalist politicians and journalists. How, other than numerically and by policy, can you judge the intent? I can determine Israel is enacting genocide against Palestinians because of the horrendous murder rates of civilians, including through forced starvation and besiegement, because of indiscriminate bombing against civilian infrastructure (which, like it or not, is rare in the invasion of Ukraine in comparison with even the invasion of Iraq), etc.
Your comment being a good example of tankies denying Ukrainian genocide.
Putin kills Ukrainian civilians, not because of their religion or genetics or culture but to terrorise them into submission so that they encourage their military to give up so that he gets to plunder their land and resources.
This is very different to the universally accepted definition of genocide as applies to The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia.
Ireland is trying to get the ICJ to broaden the UN definition of genocide to include both the Ukraine and Gaza tragedies.
Idiots have decided the new definition of genocide is simply “when one side kills a bunch of people on the other side” and get angry when you point out how infantile that is.
Infantile indeed. The popularity of Marvel/DC movies is symptomatic.
It is the age of hyperbole and polarization. As if something is not a tragedy worthy of attention unless you can paint it as the worst thing ever.
And the solutions imagined are total fantasy. Jews aint leaving the Levant, neither are the Arabs.
I watched a BBC documentary which blew my mind recently, leaving no party looking clean in the Middle East conflict. Neither ProPal nor Zionist philosophy comes into it. The reality is too messy for the partisan minds: HyperNormalization: A Different Experience of Reality.
Being in my 60’s it has been years since I saw something so challenging. Since this is an anarchist community this should appeal although it is not hopeful. More like an examination of organised Chaos.
Why do you bring up tankies? I’m not talking about any communist state, I’m talking about the proto-fascist, contemporary Russian republic, and explicitly said you can condemn it.