Five Russian jets have been blown up by Ukraine in the past three days, as Britain said drone attacks on targets within Russia were being launched from inside its own territory.
I’m pretty much a dove through and through with one exception: you must be able to fight to defend the sovereignty of your country.
It is Russia that started the tension, then the conflict, and then the war. Appeasing a megalomanic and hoping it will make them more measured is delusional.
Then as a peace loving person … why support continued fighting?
Fighting Russia only leads to more war and towards what outcome? Completely defeat, embarrass and throw Russia up against a wall they can’t back out of? They would be forced into a corner where they would eventually use a nuclear option. If they are given the choice between defeat or suicide … they might take themselves and millions of people with them.
I’m all in support of Ukrainian sovereignty and fighting for one’s country … but if it means risking the lives of millions of people around the world … what sense does that make?
If we are capable of financing billions towards violent solutions … why not instead finance billions towards a peaceful resolution?
“If we are capable of financing billions towards violent solutions … why not instead finance billions towards a peaceful resolution?”
Do you want us to spend billions on an ad campaign asking Russia to please stop invading a country? Uh I don’t know if you are history deaf or not but Russia will not stop, unless it is stopped.
Something we Americans should really stick to is the “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” line. Russia is a terrorist state, and they have proven time and time again they cannot be reasoned with.
Russia’s goal is genocide. If you train were to give up, there will be millions of people put to death and sent to concentration camps in Siberia to die. So they really don’t have any other option. We have seen time and time again Russia commit crimes against humanity including to this day the continued operation of the gulag system.
Stop financing the war … if everyone is spending billions on a war machine to just fight -> then there will be endless fighting
if you stop the financing and instead spend a few million on peaceful resolution, negotiation and just simply talking, the fighting will stop and there will be resolutions … it won’t be a simple fix, there will be complications, disputes and wins and losses by both sides (everyone can argue the details about it in whatever way they want) … but the end result will be an end to the fighting.
Otherwise, if everyone keeps wanting to spend billions on fighting … the fighting will never end.
As much as that makes sense and everyone probably agrees … then why are western nations hedging their bets that the other side won’t launch a missile, even as they escalate the fighting.
That is Russian Roulette on a global level if you ask me.
The problem is really alternatives. Give into Russias demands and they will do the same again soon. It will also send a message to China for example and make war more likely in the long run.
What kind of peace agreement would you see possible?
Btw if you’re interested on the topic of the risk of nuclear war related to Ukraine there’s a good video by Lonerbox in which he also explains the logic of the side you’re arguing with here in more detail.
Apart from the other points that have been raised: basically every recent report about Ukrainian troops has gotten a bit in it along the lines of “they’re exhausted and have taken heavy losses, but are in good spirits and willing to fight on”.
Especially if you read what individual soldiers are saying, I get the feeling that this war would not end, even if support to Ukraine where to vanish completely (good luck convincing Poland, the Baltics and Nordics). You’d just get Afghanistan, but the invaders are openly genocidal and don’t give a fuck about civilians at the best of times.
I’m no fan of Russia
But at the same time I’m no fan of nuclear war either.
The escalation of the war has to stop or else we will all feel the fallout of this war.
I’m pretty much a dove through and through with one exception: you must be able to fight to defend the sovereignty of your country.
It is Russia that started the tension, then the conflict, and then the war. Appeasing a megalomanic and hoping it will make them more measured is delusional.
Then as a peace loving person … why support continued fighting?
Fighting Russia only leads to more war and towards what outcome? Completely defeat, embarrass and throw Russia up against a wall they can’t back out of? They would be forced into a corner where they would eventually use a nuclear option. If they are given the choice between defeat or suicide … they might take themselves and millions of people with them.
I’m all in support of Ukrainian sovereignty and fighting for one’s country … but if it means risking the lives of millions of people around the world … what sense does that make?
If we are capable of financing billions towards violent solutions … why not instead finance billions towards a peaceful resolution?
“If we are capable of financing billions towards violent solutions … why not instead finance billions towards a peaceful resolution?”
Do you want us to spend billions on an ad campaign asking Russia to please stop invading a country? Uh I don’t know if you are history deaf or not but Russia will not stop, unless it is stopped.
Something we Americans should really stick to is the “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” line. Russia is a terrorist state, and they have proven time and time again they cannot be reasoned with.
Pacifism is when I get to kick people and they don’t do anything about it.
…MDMA in Moscow’s water supply something along that line?
Russia’s goal is genocide. If you train were to give up, there will be millions of people put to death and sent to concentration camps in Siberia to die. So they really don’t have any other option. We have seen time and time again Russia commit crimes against humanity including to this day the continued operation of the gulag system.
How do you plan to stop the escalation?
I mean… Russian attacks Ukraine with drones every night. Shouldn’t even surprise Russia a bit that they could get attacked, too…
Stop financing the war … if everyone is spending billions on a war machine to just fight -> then there will be endless fighting
if you stop the financing and instead spend a few million on peaceful resolution, negotiation and just simply talking, the fighting will stop and there will be resolutions … it won’t be a simple fix, there will be complications, disputes and wins and losses by both sides (everyone can argue the details about it in whatever way they want) … but the end result will be an end to the fighting.
Otherwise, if everyone keeps wanting to spend billions on fighting … the fighting will never end.
Russia isn’t going to risk the world launching a dozen nukes at them just so they can launch one at Ukraine.
As much as that makes sense and everyone probably agrees … then why are western nations hedging their bets that the other side won’t launch a missile, even as they escalate the fighting.
That is Russian Roulette on a global level if you ask me.
The problem is really alternatives. Give into Russias demands and they will do the same again soon. It will also send a message to China for example and make war more likely in the long run.
What kind of peace agreement would you see possible?
Btw if you’re interested on the topic of the risk of nuclear war related to Ukraine there’s a good video by Lonerbox in which he also explains the logic of the side you’re arguing with here in more detail.
Apart from the other points that have been raised: basically every recent report about Ukrainian troops has gotten a bit in it along the lines of “they’re exhausted and have taken heavy losses, but are in good spirits and willing to fight on”.
Especially if you read what individual soldiers are saying, I get the feeling that this war would not end, even if support to Ukraine where to vanish completely (good luck convincing Poland, the Baltics and Nordics). You’d just get Afghanistan, but the invaders are openly genocidal and don’t give a fuck about civilians at the best of times.
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