International cybercrime, as portrayed by the movies and mass media, is a high-stakes game of shadowy government agencies and state-sponsored hacking groups. Hollywood casting will wheel out a char…
The moment of excitement in one’s hometown and the sensationalist reporting aside, we can’t help feeling sad that a teen with that level of talent evidently wasn’t given the support and encouragement by Oxfordshire’s education system necessary to put it to better use.
I don’t know enough about this kid from the article to argue that he’s not highly skilled.
It’s still a weird tangent though and reductive to blame the school system, when he doesn’t even present any evidence that this was caused by some failing of the schools. Maybe you’ve been following this and can provide more context, but this context wasn’t presented in the article.
he doesn’t even present any evidence that this was caused by some failing of the schools
The cynicism I’ve gained over the last 7 years tells me that there’s an agenda being pushed there.
EDIT: To elaborate. I’m not arguing whether “the agenda” the author has is good or bad, but it’s off-base. If you’re reporting on a story, you really should leave your feelings about the story at the door. It’s not like the story isn’t interesting enough! If this were an op-ed, then that’s one thing. But the “sensationalist reporting aside” and “we can’t help feeling sad” and then pointing to… the UK’s education system… it’s clearly not objective. You’re not presenting facts and facts alone, you’re presenting facts with your opinions mixed in.
Just look at what the author invited into his comment section with that:
Not enough male teachers for these lads to confide in and see as role models.
Blatant sexism.
Yes, keep male teachers who are not woke away from kids.
Groomer accusations.
If I had to guess I would pick serious mental illness rather than a failing by the schools.
You’re not presenting facts and facts alone, you’re presenting facts with your opinions mixed in.
Yes, that’s because they aren’t doing any reporting. It’s commentary. That’s the point of it. The actual news they’re commentating is this article by the BBC. It’s Hackaday, not Reuters.
I suspect our schools are failing us if we don’t even know how journalism works.
I don’t think it’s an agenda, I think it’s just poorly delivered. The facts are:
Teen hacks corps using a Fire Stick.
Teen has done something novel with proprietary hardware.
I think it’s safe to assume that he’s intelligent and creative based on those two things. With proper guidance from the right kinds of people (including parents), someone like that could eventually put those talents to use on someone’s Red Team, or working with an intelligence agency, rather than doing something illegal to stretch their wings (fuck big corporations, but the law is what it is).
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to note that his talents will be wasted by grinding him down in the justice system.
Agreed on all. I just wish that Hackaday presented those points as well as you did, and followed up on them with, for example, criminal justice experts, psychiatrists, educators, etc. The article has none of these, it doesn’t gather supporting evidence to make an informed opinion, it basically reads like a very long tweet.
You caught a lot of downvotes on the original post, but it is reductive. I pretty sane conclusion but educational support probably isn’t the only culprit, issues like this are multilayered and not so cut and dry.
Never thought I’d see a worse usage of downvotes than on Reddit, but here we are lol. The amount of knee jerk opinions, reactions, and downvoting is surprising
Yes, but kids that age like video games and will push boundaries. So I doubt even the best education could have prevented that.
To hackers hacking is far more fun than anything some school/uni/employer can come up with (until they’re old enough and realize a criminal record isn’t worth it).
There are career hackers. Pen testing and white hat hacking is very much a thing. I’ve been in software for two decades, some of the most talented people I’ve worked with had similar back stories.
This doesn’t mean he can’t end up in the cyber security field. A lot of pretty famous hackers started by doing stuff like this, got caught, then turned it into a business doing stuff on the up and up.
Hopefully that becomes more nuanced with time. Did you hack your school? Or an unrelated entity? What color hat, grey or black? Last known activity? Age of the person at the time?
All questions that need answers presented alongside any history of misuse.
Honestly I can’t imagine that’s a tenable position to take long term. We’ve seen the U.S. govt rethink it’s approach to IT after it was pointed out their failure to intice applicants was a result of stupidly strict Drug Policy and Dress Code. Who knew that a large segment of the IT field don’t like Business Casual and like to smoke weed? Who knew that people drawn to CyberSecurity are likely to have dabbled on the other side of the line prior to making a career out of it?
I think most of the people who did something pretty high profile, or are that good, start their own thing instead of just seeking out a job somewhere. For example, Kevin Mitnick, George Hotz, and Walter O’Brien.
Steal a couple thousands with identity fraud and account hacking? Jail time, no jobs that need cybersec clearance will touch you with a ten foot pole.
Steal millions+ from multiple large corpos with dedicated cybersec, and you’ll be getting offers out the wazoo, but you’ll be rejecting them because you’re already working for some think tank attached to the NSA.
Dunno why you’re getting so many downvotes… Even if someone disagrees, it’s a pretty reasonable thing to say.
Plus IMO it is kind of a non sequitur to say “if only the schools were better,” as though his motivations could have been satisfied with better homework assignments, lol.
fwiw I agree with you in that for the author to include this in their article is pretty weird. At some point it transformed from reporting into an op-ed.
Someone elsewhere in this thread mentioned that it is intended as commentary on another article, but even so, the author doesn’t present what facts or other bits of evidence lead her to believe this can be attributed to a failure of the schools, which makes it even weirder as a commentary.
Indeed. Make of this what you will (anecdotal) but I can say with some certainty that I did some shady things in my younger years that could not be attributed to any parental or societal shortcomings.
What a weird conclusion for the author to draw
How so? Someone needs to hire this kid, he sounds like he has a lot of potential.
I don’t know enough about this kid from the article to argue that he’s not highly skilled.
It’s still a weird tangent though and reductive to blame the school system, when he doesn’t even present any evidence that this was caused by some failing of the schools. Maybe you’ve been following this and can provide more context, but this context wasn’t presented in the article.
The cynicism I’ve gained over the last 7 years tells me that there’s an agenda being pushed there.
EDIT: To elaborate. I’m not arguing whether “the agenda” the author has is good or bad, but it’s off-base. If you’re reporting on a story, you really should leave your feelings about the story at the door. It’s not like the story isn’t interesting enough! If this were an op-ed, then that’s one thing. But the “sensationalist reporting aside” and “we can’t help feeling sad” and then pointing to… the UK’s education system… it’s clearly not objective. You’re not presenting facts and facts alone, you’re presenting facts with your opinions mixed in.
Just look at what the author invited into his comment section with that:
Blatant sexism.
Groomer accusations.
Disparaging of neurodivergence (neurodiversity? IDK if that’s still the right term). Hacking into companies and bragging about it is something even neurotypical teenagers do.
Anti-education screed.
Do I even need to say anything about this one?
Yes, that’s because they aren’t doing any reporting. It’s commentary. That’s the point of it. The actual news they’re commentating is this article by the BBC. It’s Hackaday, not Reuters.
I suspect our schools are failing us if we don’t even know how journalism works.
I don’t think it’s an agenda, I think it’s just poorly delivered. The facts are:
Teen hacks corps using a Fire Stick.
Teen has done something novel with proprietary hardware.
I think it’s safe to assume that he’s intelligent and creative based on those two things. With proper guidance from the right kinds of people (including parents), someone like that could eventually put those talents to use on someone’s Red Team, or working with an intelligence agency, rather than doing something illegal to stretch their wings (fuck big corporations, but the law is what it is).
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to note that his talents will be wasted by grinding him down in the justice system.
Agreed on all. I just wish that Hackaday presented those points as well as you did, and followed up on them with, for example, criminal justice experts, psychiatrists, educators, etc. The article has none of these, it doesn’t gather supporting evidence to make an informed opinion, it basically reads like a very long tweet.
This article might help shine some light on some questions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66549159
You caught a lot of downvotes on the original post, but it is reductive. I pretty sane conclusion but educational support probably isn’t the only culprit, issues like this are multilayered and not so cut and dry.
Never thought I’d see a worse usage of downvotes than on Reddit, but here we are lol. The amount of knee jerk opinions, reactions, and downvoting is surprising
Yes, but kids that age like video games and will push boundaries. So I doubt even the best education could have prevented that.
To hackers hacking is far more fun than anything some school/uni/employer can come up with (until they’re old enough and realize a criminal record isn’t worth it).
There are career hackers. Pen testing and white hat hacking is very much a thing. I’ve been in software for two decades, some of the most talented people I’ve worked with had similar back stories.
I wouldn’t trust this kid with my wifi password.
I’d trust him to recover my WiFi password after I’ve forgotten it
Technically he’s an adult. Still has a childlike underdeveloped prefrontal cortex mind you. Not very smart.
deleted by creator
This doesn’t mean he can’t end up in the cyber security field. A lot of pretty famous hackers started by doing stuff like this, got caught, then turned it into a business doing stuff on the up and up.
Like in the documentary Swordfish
deleted by creator
Hopefully that becomes more nuanced with time. Did you hack your school? Or an unrelated entity? What color hat, grey or black? Last known activity? Age of the person at the time?
All questions that need answers presented alongside any history of misuse.
Honestly I can’t imagine that’s a tenable position to take long term. We’ve seen the U.S. govt rethink it’s approach to IT after it was pointed out their failure to intice applicants was a result of stupidly strict Drug Policy and Dress Code. Who knew that a large segment of the IT field don’t like Business Casual and like to smoke weed? Who knew that people drawn to CyberSecurity are likely to have dabbled on the other side of the line prior to making a career out of it?
I think most of the people who did something pretty high profile, or are that good, start their own thing instead of just seeking out a job somewhere. For example, Kevin Mitnick, George Hotz, and Walter O’Brien.
Steal a couple thousands with identity fraud and account hacking? Jail time, no jobs that need cybersec clearance will touch you with a ten foot pole.
Steal millions+ from multiple large corpos with dedicated cybersec, and you’ll be getting offers out the wazoo, but you’ll be rejecting them because you’re already working for some think tank attached to the NSA.
Source: I made it up
Dunno why you’re getting so many downvotes… Even if someone disagrees, it’s a pretty reasonable thing to say.
Plus IMO it is kind of a non sequitur to say “if only the schools were better,” as though his motivations could have been satisfied with better homework assignments, lol.
I’m blessed by being on an instance that disables downvotes, so I hadn’t even noticed haha
fwiw I agree with you in that for the author to include this in their article is pretty weird. At some point it transformed from reporting into an op-ed.
Someone elsewhere in this thread mentioned that it is intended as commentary on another article, but even so, the author doesn’t present what facts or other bits of evidence lead her to believe this can be attributed to a failure of the schools, which makes it even weirder as a commentary.
Indeed. Make of this what you will (anecdotal) but I can say with some certainty that I did some shady things in my younger years that could not be attributed to any parental or societal shortcomings.