I understand why tankies are referred to as on the left, but they just simply aren’t. They’re authoritarian and the things they post are rarely if ever in agreement with anyone else who calls themselves on the left.
10 times out of 10, I only get juvenile responses from tankie .ml users. You will never get any good faith discussions from them. Certain users are also terminally online when you look at their posting history. It is almost as if they are children…
Tankies are used to discredit the left. They are useful tools for both china and US regimes
Why the article mention amti zionism as it is bad to oppose that supermasist ideology?
Main stream has not accepted the reality that Zionism is cancer
It’s crazy someone in this post argued that the grand mufti was influencial despite telling him that he failed to push most arabs to side with nazi germany at the same he said that Herzl was not influencial but the document of the declaration of “independence” Herzl referred to as “the spiritual father of the Jewish State” . I showed him quotes of herzl talking sbout expulsing the local population and ben gurion tslking sbout controlling all palestine once they get an army. He still refused to acknowledge that zionism is cancer
Zionists are running out of arguments.
Anyone who studied some basic history of Palestine can see through the lies.
They know they are losing the public opinion battle at this point they are just buying time while they finish Gaza off.
Regardless of what you think of lemmygrad, this is a shit paper.
From Wikipedia:
While Zionist values serve as the ideological foundation of Israel, the importance of Zionism as an organized movement has declined since Israeli independence.[2]
The Zionist movement continues to exist in the form of various organizations working to support Israel, combat antisemitism, assist persecuted Jews, and encourage diaspora Jews to move to Israel. Most Israeli political parties continue to define themselves as Zionist.
Zionism was about the creation of Israel, a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be for everyone who lives there, including Palestinians, who were living under authoritarian governance before that point. It is imperative that you understand power and control to understand the importance of democracy <- leftists are fucking failing right here.
Israel has not been a good steward of the endeavor, but it was nevertheless the goal. It was messy. People had to get along to make it work. The Palestinians of that time refused to coexist peacefully with the Jews because of antisemitism, and they left. The surrounding countries like Jordan refused to let them in, even when that was their previous country. They decided to attack Israel and lost multiple wars. They refused to share land that was not theirs before, even if it was their ancestral homeland, because there was no democracy. The land belonged to its rulers.
I personally think Israel was doing better than say, the USA with our indigenous peoples, until recent years when the rise of far right authoritarianism threw the democracy out of whack and the worst people there are now in control.
The genocide in Gaza is an unprecedented travesty and Israel must be held to account. But who has the right to redefine the word ‘Zionism’ when it’s the word used by this group of people to define their effort to save themselves? The notion that it was a racist or colonial movement is propaganda. The Jews have faced legitimate oppression everywhere they have tried to exist and arrived in the region after fleeing persecution in Europe and elsewhere. As the word has lessened in usage, antisemitic forces have coopted it and turned it into a slur.
Anti-Zionists are at best ignorant of the importance of democracy and at worst, antisemitic. Pick a new word.
The West’s biggest mistake was extending free speech to the non-free world via the internet, allowing us to propagandize ourselves by listening to people across the world who don’t understand what democracy is. Or in the case of China, a regime that has been able to provide a high enough standard of living that it provides the illusion that they have it better. But trust me, they want democracy.
Zionism was about the creation of Israel, a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be for everyone who lives there, including Palestinians, who were living under authoritarian governance before that point. It is imperative that you understand power and control to understand the importance of democracy
‘I stole your house and land to create a utopia. You could have understood my vision and agreed to my very generous offer of being second class citizens. But since you didn’t, I will kill you and your family. You are failing to understand big-word and bigger-word.’
Fuck off, zcolonialism apologist.
No zionism was an supermasist ideology that want to force a state on local population and kick out the local people
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Sounds like an elitist; not a supremacist.
It is supermasism
Supremacism is a stronger and broader belief in the inherent superiority and dominance of one group over others—often based on race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, or cultural identity.
It’s a fact that zionists believe that they have more right to the land because their ancestors used to live there 2000 years ago over the local popuation who never left. It’s a fact that israel as a zionist state is dominating palestinians. The best example are illegal settlers terrorists are acting violently on palestinians with the idf protection
You’re missing the entire point, likely in bad faith. Here’s the deal: democracy allows the people to decide their fate. Israel was a project to bring democracy to the middle east. Everything else is a distraction by authoritarian forces across the world. They need it to fail because democracy itself is a threat to their hold on power.
Palestinians should have (in the past at least) worked to be a part of Israel. It was their chance at freedom and they refused to share it with Jews. Now that doesn’t matter because fascism rose, Israel fucked up, and now the world must do for the Palestinians what it did for the Jews after the Holocaust.
You are the bad actor. Democracy is internal has nothing to do with the fact that Zionists immigrant forced a state on the local population and did ethnic cleansing in 48. Stop pretending that Zionism was not a supremacist ideology
Nobody is tricked by your disingenuous mention of democracy to deflect and trying to making it about jews vs Arabs.
Palestinians should have (in the past at least) worked to be a part of Israel. It was their chance at freedom and they refused to share it with Jews
Arab suggested a one state solution with equal rights to everybody, Israel never did . A one state where west bankers and Gazan become citizens on Israel would go against the fundamental of Zionism which is a Jewish state
forced a state on a local population
Who were ruled by whom?
Zionists being emigrants is a fact through, palestinian being the local population is a fact. Don’t conflate zionists with jews in general, i know there always was some jews who never left the land, doesn’t make thr europeen zionists having right to force the state on thrm
Are you aware that Arabs also thought the same of Jews? You’ll find that almost all parties in the region share the same views and hatred.
No they didn’t and stop deflecting we are talking about zionism right now
They most certainly did.
He has little influence, he is insignificant most arabs sided with the allies and fought nazi germany including volunteering18k palestinians. Now back to the topic why don’t you admit that zionism was always about stesling local people land by herzl admission?
Herzl had little influence
Lmao! They really tried to sneak in “Hitler had little influence”
Lol he is the creator of modern zionism. What about former israeli prime ministers, will you also tell me they are also insignificant?
after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion
But who has the right to redefine the word ‘Zionism’ when it’s the word used by this group of people to define their effort to save themselves?
Anti-Zionists are at best ignorant of the importance of democracy and at worst, antisemitic. Pick a new word.
The people who protect the leadership of Israel from any consequences regardless of how they behave and provide them the tools to do whatever they deem necessary, including blatant ethnic cleansing and genocide, call themselves Zionist. It might not be fair to redefine a word, but those commiting genocide and those defending and enabling genocide, use it for themselves. Opposition meets them where they stand. The burden should not be on those opposing the genocide, what you call tragedy, to come up with a new word. You are redefining anti-new-Zionism as Anti-Semitism. Just as unhelpful as redefining Zionism. How about we work to stop the genocide and then focus on the definition of Zionism later?
I agree with you, but it’s also important to note that disguising anti-semitism as anti-zionism isn’t anything new. Neo-Nazis often use zionist as a dog whistle to mean Jew prior to the current conflict.
I believe that many leaders in Israel are well aware of this and are using that as a shield. Such use literally lays the ground work for actual Anti-Semitism. If Zionism has nothing to do with what’s happening in Gaza and the West Bank, then far, far, far more effort needs to go into denying the Zionism of war criminals commiting a genocide and hiding behind language than criticizing those who use those same war criminals’ language to oppose them.
I fight this fight knowing how tone deaf it is at this moment in time because you and the internet at large don’t seem to understand how ancient and how pervasive antisemitism is. I agree with your points, but argue the problem you’re touching is far right authoritarianism rising worldwide. It will turn all democracies into the worst fascist states. The USA is absolutely enabling genocide, a word I use without hesitation, but the history is clear that Jews have never NOT been under direct threat of genocide. My biggest fear in October 7 was that they would lose themselves to right wing madness the way we did after 9/11. And that’s what happened. Far-right ideology is the problem. Always. Not the Jews.
Nah, fuck off shill.
Israelis are openly calling for blood, openly murdering children.
i see you haven’t criticized the history stated here and only been critical of the current israelis calling for gaza children’s blood openly
you must agree with the historical accuracy here and have problems tying your own shoe laces
Yeah, lots of them are. Fuck them. Would you like to see ALL Israeli punished or murdered for this? Because there’s a word for that.
@amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Elaborate please
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What definition of left-wing do they use to call tankies left-wing? I don’t know of any that would align with authoritarianism, which obviously entails inequality and significantly limited civil liberties. Other than that, it’s a good, though short piece. It would be great to see more research or reporting on the subject.
Left-wing means anti-capitalist. This usually comes packaged with being either pro-socialism or pro-communism or both, and the tankies do usually tend to be pro-communism. They just differ from us on all the other stuff
Left wing was anti monarchy. Take a guess at who tries to reframe that.
In my experience Lemmy tends to be pretty extreme left outside of the tankie communities. It isn’t uncommon to see people here calling for violence or spreading hate speech.
It is really sad since I think Lemmy has some serious potential.
Bootlicker…
i wouldnt call extreme left, more like center left outside of tankies.
Spreading hate speech
And what hate speech is being spread by people on the left? You mean all the anti-nazi/anti-authoritarianism/anti-fascism sentiments?
Still big mad, we gloated about the dead CEO parasite
leftism is when hate speech
Unhinged take
Except that isn’t what I said
The authors give away their ideology when they conflate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism.
If you think Zionism is a good thing, you’re supporting genocide.
Where do they conflate it? Here’s an excerpt from the quote they provide as an example of antisemitism:
Everyone identifing as a jew is a zionist and an enemy of the communist and anti imperialist movement.
And you give away your ideology with this comment. You are the extreme they are talking about.
“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”
- 1984
You reject this paper solely because it might go against your own beliefs. You don’t need to agree with every thing everyone publishes. It is important to keep your mind open instead of taking anything that might make your question your beliefs as a personal attack. Stop with the us vs them and start thinking for yourself.
You would a reject an article from an pro russian media too
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Ireland is trying to redefine “genocide” to include Gaza & Ukraine situations.
“Redefine” when it’s calling it what it is.
Fuck off.
most of the ukranians in crimea still live there after the almost bloodless coup. don’t tell me you haven’t thought this through. the irish must be huffing too much amazon money. how is it putting one foot in front of another? we call it walking
It didn’t redefine anything. Yes both are genocides based on the legal definition
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You are a zionist if you support a two-state solution.
What a bunch of bs
How so?
Herzl admited that he wanted the palestinians out like i mentionned in other comment. You are a zionist if you believe that zionists has eternal right to the land because of a two year old kingdom
I don’t think that. But I do think Israel has a right to exist.
Today yes but before it creation no, because zionists was imigrants that wanted to force a state by ethenically cleansing local population. It’s still ok to believe in a one state with equal right too
Does palestine has a right to exists too?
Yes
Technically true. I am therefore a Zionist. That doesn’t mean I want to see Israel expand into Jordan or even expand settlements in the WB.
You are no zionist if you oppose settlements in west bank because zionists believe any part of old jewish kingdoms belong to them
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Me neither
But too often is zionist used as a dog whistle for jew.
How do you know it is most of the time and not just sometimes? It’s like saying science often used for bad things like some racists was trying to use science to proof that white people are superior
Most of the time it’s pointing out dog whistles and common slogans antisemites use to identify one another while also radicalising “normies”
It’s difficult
Stilñ waiting for evidence about it being most of the time rather thsn sometimes
Okay, sure. So, an example is the red arrow; you’ve probably seen some Twitter users or Hexbear users have the red arrow when referring to zionists.
This red arrow is a reference to Hamas propaganda videos, which in of itself is a reference to the Holocaust A “normie” would never know this, but extremists and antisemites can use it to identify one another while handwaving those who point out the dog whistle, ‘Oh, it’s just an arrow, don’t be so paranoid.’
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keep em coming yank, every alt you make just grows the community numbers
Like you need more bots lmao.
lol you called yourself a bot
It is scary that we have made humans into political topics.
Always have been
Lemmy is an open-source, self-hosted Decentralized Web platform that provides instances for news aggregation and discussion forums (Lemmy 2023).
Notably, this work find positive sentiments toward Lemmy and criticism of Reddit among the users of this platform.
in a dry tone
Indeed.
Who would’ve thought
Although even Redditors aren’t all that happy with Reddit.
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The fuck is this rightwing russian propaganda post? Eat a bag of dicks.
Tankies are supportive of Russia lol
Uhhh what? Lemmygrad is generally pro-Russia (muh critical support) and this is an article examining their content, painting it as left wing extremism.
russian propaganda
US and EU funded, and I doubt propaganda.
This material is based upon work supported by the National Science Foundation under Grant No. IIS-2046590 and the European Union under the project MedDMO (Grant Agreement no. 101083756).
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