• FatLegTed@feddit.uk
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    1 year ago

    Good luck with that. Grill is a type of cooking not a specific cutt of meat.

    Will they ban grilled cheese?

  • opgjoh@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    I’ve read the claim that these terms “confuse customers”, but has that really happened more than a small handful of times? Do people really buy the clearly named “vegan burger”, go home and only then realize that it was not what they wanted? It seems absurd to think that customers are making these mistakes. I don’t even recall ever having seen one of those products not making it clear that they are vegetarian or vegan, that’s always their selling point.

    Plus, it is highly convenient to name these products after what they are meant to replace and which form they share.

    This seems like a pointless attack against vegetarian/vegan alternatives, which is unfortunate given that we’d probably want more people to eat (or at least consider eating) those rather than less.

    • Sphks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      This IS because buyers get confused. I am French. I get confused.

      There are products that copy burgers to meet the demand of users willing to eat less meat. You can clearly see what it is and there is no issue with these products.

      But there are also products faking meaty products, with vegetables because it’s cheaper. Let’s take this one for example : https://www.auchan.fr/charal-happy-family-viande-hachee-a-cuisiner/pr-C1159092 It’s not written “viande hachée [de boeuf]” (beef meat) on the package, because there is 20% of water and vegetables to be cheaper. However, everything is made to make you think it’s just beef. There is nothing really visible selling it as an alternative to eat less meat. There are just very small lines on the bottom of the package. The title of the online shop is wrong, selling it as “viande hachée” (ground meat). It’s clearly misleading.

      There are tons of such examples and that’s why there is this new law in France.

      • alefhar@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this 80% meat and 20% vegetables and thus not vegetarian? If so, this isn’t the same kind of product as an actual vegetarian/vegan patty that is made from vegetable protein only.

        I agree with you that the product you linked is labelled confusingly. But it won’t ever be called “vegetarian patty” but rather “meat reduced patty”.

        Edit: You get confused not by vegan burgers (no meat contained) but by non-vegan burgers (less meat contained) and thus by the meat industry, right?

        • Sphks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          The decree is about the two kind of products. Meat with plants, and 100% plant based food that try to mislead people.
          As a consequence, it also concerns plant based food that are clearly branded as vegan food, but it’s not the main target.

          • alefhar@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            So there is

            1. 100% plant based food, labeled for example “vegan sausage”
            2. 100% plant based food, labeled for example “sausage”
            3. X% meat based food, labeled for example “meat reduced sausage” or “sausage with added vegetables”
            4. X% meat based food, labeled for example “sausage”
            5. 100% meat based food, labeled for example “sausage”

            Personally, buying 2 or 4 I’d be surprised that these products contain plants. But I fail to see how 1 and 3 would surprise anyone anymore. “Vegan” and “vegetarian” are terms I’d expect any adult to understand as “does not contain meat/anything from an animal”. So, calling anything “vegan sausage” clearly communicates that it is “vegan food in sausage shape” or “vegan food that is intended to replace sausage”.

            No one in their right mind would think of olive oil as something to lubricate some olives…

    • Astroturfed@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Some people order turds and put them in their mouth. All of them are dumb, but some of them are so dumb that they didn’t even realize they ordered the turd burger.

  • Rednax@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I’d love to see more plant based products that are just their own thing. Why be a mediocre immitation of meat, if you can be your own awsome product. For example: falafel is awsome in it’s own right.

    • clayj9@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Because some vegetarians/vegans still want meat tasting products, but don’t want to harm animals.

      • eee@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Hmm why not make better plant-tasting food? If i didn’t eat meat for ethical reasons, I wouldn’t want to keep reminding myself of the taste…

            • mixis@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Your hypothesis does not hold for a large amount of people. There’s a non-negligible chance, that it would not be true for yourself, IF you did not eat meat for ethical reasons.

              • aes@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                But just to be clear, there’s no “if”. They literally are not a part of that demographic.

  • SSUPII@sopuli.xyz
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    1 year ago

    I personally don’t think this is because buyers get confused. By simply not stating a meat product is plant-based I am very sure anyone can assume it’s animal meat.

    I believe this is more to make the distinctions more clear, but instead meant to not risk lowering the purchase of already established products from curious customers seeing familiar food names in different situations or made in different ways.

    • Sphks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      This IS because buyers get confused. I am French. I get confused.

      There are products that copy burgers to meet the demand of users willing to eat less meat. You can clearly see what it is and there is no issue with these products.

      But there are also products faking meaty products, with vegetables because it’s cheaper. Let’s take this one for example : https://www.auchan.fr/charal-happy-family-viande-hachee-a-cuisiner/pr-C1159092 It’s not written “viande hachée [de boeuf]” (beef meat) on the package, because there is 20% of water and vegetables to be cheaper. However, everything is made to make you think it’s just beef. There is nothing really visible selling it as an alternative to eat less meat. There are just very small lines on the bottom of package. The title of the online shop is wrong, selling it as “viande hachée” (ground meat). It’s clearly misleading.

      There are tons of such examples and that’s why there is this new law in France.

      • SSUPII@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Oh, understood. I thought packaging it was much more evident on their own, instead it’s actually hiding.

    • bob_wiley@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It is confusing though. I’ve been at the store many times and saw something that at first glance looks like a meat product. I almost grab it, but then context clues make me start second guessing. Why is this here in the store, seems odd? What’s all this weird stuff next to it? So I look more closely at the package and see that it’s plant based.

      I really don’t get it. If meat is so bad, why would vegetarians want stuff that looked and tried to taste like meat?

      About 20 years ago when plant based “meat” was less common I accidentally bought some frozen hamburgers that were plant based. I figured since I already bought them I’d give it a try. It was awful. Maybe as it’s own thing it might have been ok, but if I’m expecting the taste of hamburger and get that… it’s gross. Having their own names might do them a favor in that area, as no one is going to be tricked into thinking that stuff is meat once they take a bit.

      • protist@mander.xyz
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        1 year ago

        I really don’t get it. If meat is so bad, why would vegetarians want stuff that looked and tried to taste like meat?

        Humans evolved to eat meat, but eating meat daily at the scale of 8 billion humans is destroying ecosystems and one of the worst contributors to carbon emissions.

        Humans evolved to be smart, and have created more sustainable alternatives. This isn’t a black or white issue, you can use meat alternatives just sometimes, rather than all the time, and still make a difference

        Side note, I love meat, and I highly recommend you try an Impossible burger. Cook it on a cast iron skillet exactly as the directions say, and I think you’ll be surprised how much better it is than other options

        • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          People who think going vegan means eating sad tofu all day havn’t been paying attention for the past 10 years

        • bob_wiley@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’m ok with the idea of eating less meat, I just don’t like the idea of fake meat. I haven’t tried the impossible burger, it seems like an incredibly highly processed food. If I’m going to have a meal without meat, then it will be a meal without meat, rather that some frankenfood pretending to be meat.

          There have been many times in the past when science claimed to create a new miracle food that was supposed to be so much better than the more natural alternative. I still remember when my mom got some margarine, because butter was deemed to be a food that would kill us all and margarine was the “good for you” alternative. She tried to melt it and couldn’t… not in the oven, not in boiling water. Fast-forward and that early margarine was really high in trans fats, which are now being banned all over the place.

          • HidingCat@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Then this product isn’t for you. It’s for the rest who are more resistant and don’t share your views.

          • rmuk@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            Can you tell me your preferred brand of cola, or laundry detergent, or car, or laptop, or fucking whatever so I can copypasta your message back at you.

      • Anamnesis@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Meat tastes great but the way we get it is pretty fucked up and can’t be ethically justified. So of course vegetarians and vegans want to eat something that tastes like meat but doesn’t come from animals. I’m always surprised that so many meat eaters assume that most vegetarians and vegans don’t like the taste of meat.

        • HidingCat@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          This is more for people who aren’t vegetarians or vegans. The goal is to get people to eat less meat, so even if people don’t go fully vegan with these products it’s still a win.

          • young_broccoli@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Humans tend to kill animals much more humanely than any other animal

            Debatable, based on my personal experiences. But even if we asume this is true, its not how we kill them but how we force them to live before killing them, thats immoral IMO

            not all meat is factory farmed.

            True, however, its estimated that 90% of all the meat we produce globally comes from factory farms.

            • bob_wiley@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              If we eliminate factory farming, meat prices will go up, and as a result people will eat less of it. Of course at the same time there need to be better alternatives for people. It seems most places only have salads, and maybe pasta, as choices for meat free options. I don’t think replacing all the meat with fake meat is the best option.

      • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I don’t really like vegetables so I eat a lot of meat. I don’t particularly like meat harvesting practices, though. I’m really interested in substitutes and lab grown.

  • riodoro1@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    We have to protect our unsustainable culture from appropriation. This is the most pressing issue.