I’m trying to get you to understand that you’ve been coming off like a dick and trying to help you not come off like a dick, because I believe in what you’re trying to do, and coming off as a dick is hurting the cause of things we both want in this world.

Telling people that you aren’t coming off as a dick (i.e. condescending) is saying their feelings aren’t valid and is being a dick. So yeah, you were telling people how to feel. “Well I wasn’t trying to be a dick so you shouldn’t feel like I was being a dick” isn’t a great for you, me, or our mutual cause.

Ok maybe I should’ve used hornswaggle if that’s more your flavor, judgey mcjudgerson

Bottoms up!

I don’t think, because I don’t think getting people to accept other people is anything like rape.

So you say that you get that bigotry can cut both ways, basically people can be bigoted towards anyone, and can happen pretty much anywhere. So one of the only things we can do is make it so bigots can’t use their power to hurt people they hate, regardless of who they hate. That’s why we have laws against things like, hitting each other and murder. We also have other laws to keep people from discriminating when doing business and hiring people. I think that those are laws that you are in favor of, because you don’t want people to discriminate against you.

The problem with that logic is that you’re assuming you’ll just find another job. What if you lived in a city that was super crazy liberal, and no one was hiring you because you were straight. Unfortunately you still need a job to get by, and you can’t afford to move if you don’t have a job.

But hey, about mistreating you? There’s laws about that, too, all part of the package deal that comes with not hiring you based on race. With strict enough penalties companies would rather their employees not be bigots because they don’t want to go to court.

A side effect of all this is that bigotry dies in people’s hearts when they are exposed to the people they are bigoted against. If there was someone who hated Americans, but then got to actually meet and talk to one and work with one, they would realize Americans aren’t all bad and can be pretty nice and chill. So making sure people don’t hire based on race helps eliminate racism and keeps things fair for everyone, which helps business innovate by giving people a chance.

You don’t get to tell others how they feel about things, that’s very invalidating.

If you weren’t intending on being condescending but to others you seem condescending, that’s a problem to fix on your end, right?

Well the problem with that is that there’s some businesses that wouldn’t fail and go out of business even if there were instances of bigotry in hiring. So that’s why people had to step in.

Like, if you tried to get a job at Starbucks and weren’t hired because you were white, that one store isn’t going to fail, much less the company. And it wouldn’t be fair to hire or not hire people based on your race, right?

So people set up rules so that hiring people based on race is illegal, which works out better for businesses and people overall.

Bro, if we’re talking about convenience tone, you’ve come off like that from the start with people. I don’t think you meant it, but you sounded very “holier and more socially enlightened than thou”, especially when you doubled down on explaining things rather than like, trying to understand what they were saying.

It’s very hard to tell that you’re listening. Maybe that’s something else you can work on, I’d be happy to provide feedback so you can help people feel heard and included.

So you’re saying that making it so people hire based on how qualified they are rather than, say, race, is actually good for business. Because there are flawed and bigoted people out there, and even though a capitalist business is about making a profit, there’s people out there who would rather screw up the system over petty differences than have business be better and innovate more.

If you’ve been misunderstood, it’s important to know why you’ve been misunderstood, and that involves listening more, not talking more.

I fucking love Chick Tracts and collect them. They are so wildly unhinged it’s great

Man it’s like, people are bigoted or something to the point where they had to make laws specifically saying that you have to hire the most competent person, and people still whine about it.

We both know there’s racist people out there, towards blacks and whites and Asians or anyone else. Or people who hate gays. Or people who hate straight people. So if you really believe in meritocracy, where people naturally rise from their own effort and the better people get the jobs, you should be in favor of laws that keep things fair. Then the better people will get hired.

I think we’re having a communication issue, where I’m trying to explain how you’re coming off, and you’re trying to explain how you’re right. Being correct doesn’t mean that you presented that correctness in a way that honors your truth, and can have the opposite effect of what you want. I don’t even disagree with what your overall point is, but the way you’ve been wording things until this last comment hasn’t been doing your overall point justice.

I feel that, but when you say the ideal is an indigenous led movement, and case that on the assumption that indigenous people will be all on board, it doesn’t come off as multi faceted, especially when you say that’s the ideal outcome. Your ideal outcome is based off of an assumption based on race, while lumping many races and cultures together. That’s easy different from “we need to bring the various indigenous people to the table and try to rebuild in a way outside of colonialism”.

Conservative mindset is that everything is in a hierarchy, the hierarchy is a Good and Natural thing to exist, and therefore even if you’re not at the top, there Must be someone beneath you. And then trying to make their lives better puts the wrong people in the hierarchy, so they must be stopped. It’s miserably sad I assume.

Idk mate, you’re the one who brought up the idea of an indigenous socialist revolution and now you’re saying that ideal isn’t a solid foundation. I thought the point was to unite the working class as a whole, not put a generic category of race made by colonialism on a pedestal. “Indigenous” isn’t a single group of people who all think vaguely the same about communism, so I’m not sure why you thought it would be a good idea to say that’s the ideal situation.

“native Americans are more likely to like communism” isn’t exactly a solid foundation for establishing “an indigenous led, decolonial socialist state [that] takes the place of the former US Empire,”

It is highly unlikely that if the us government collapses everyone’s going to be like “whelp let’s let the communist indigenous people lead may as well, even though they don’t have the numbers, arms, food or production to run anything”

Sure in an idealistic sense it would be cool to go full Ferngully/dances with wolves/Avatar/noble savage cliche but if we’re going to dream that big I’d like an infinite pizza shooting unicorn.

Bruv they aren’t committing more crime. That’s one of the reasons people are mad. Immigrants literally commit less crimes than nationals. Your argument for minorities committing more crimes is flawed because the only reason you think they commit more crimes is because police arrest them more, whether they were doing something illegal or not. “We target these people because we’ve targeted these people before”

How tf did this maga ass Kool aid get over to Australia? You have no idea how shit it is here or how shit works here.

You sound so stupid you may as well become American and be done with it.