Better than seeing weird letters and 80 style colored geometric shape sliding around.

I’m not sure they all choose.

Didn’t we have this discussion like, a month ago, when this happened somewhere else? And a month earlier than that? And another month earlier than that?

Hopefully, the pushback will keep coming alongside with it. That’s shitfuckery level of a stupid proposal.

Goddamn I wish I could build a custom phone OS like Arch. I would actually take the time and do that.

You totally can. Android phones are basically a Linux kernel with a nice GUI. Just find the appropriate modules for your specific hardware, then assemble a suitable set of software to provide an user interface, and voila. We even already have good support for touch screen, phone calls, and a lot of other things available as separate pieces. I’m sure people will be happy to have this, myself included. Oh, and once you get all the pieces, remember to fix all the weird quirks, who would want a phone where the gyroscope stop working when you enable the camera, right?

What? That’s too much work? Yeah. That’s exactly why people are seeking for a large, resourceful entity to do that. Because it requires a truckload of time, effort, and knowledge. Today, “building” a linux distro is possible because of the vast amount of effort invested in it for decades.

Openness. So far, Valve hardware offering is not trying to coerce you into a closed ecosystem, is not trying to forbid you from doing whatever the fuck you want with your device, and is not trying to force you to do things their way. They come with Steam, but you can basically do anything with them. Including removing Steam if you desire. And you can peek under the hood all you want.

The current mobile phone market is either walled garden jail from Apple, where you have to follow their value to the T, broken iphone where you have to jump through hoops to get something that may or may not survive the next update at the whim of our corporate overlords, or Android, which I like the most, where Google can pull a fast one on you installing an app by hand if they so desire (yes, I know they sort of walked back… for now).

Today, I see the phone I own as a necessary liability because of banking apps and such. I’d like a phone that would feel more like a device I own and can somewhat trust.

Is Valve the best player for that? No idea. But no current player is. At best we got some software offering built to support a very limited subset of hardware, and that software offering is still tied to the upstream (usually AOSP) playing nice.

Not only it is actually happening, it’s actually well researched and mathematically proven.

If I was her dad, I’d be asking to take candid photo of the staff that took that decision, for no particular reasons, and see them stumble. But apparently “boys will be boys” remain strong :/

I think it’s time to start actually protecting and caring for children instead of using them as a scapegoat.

Nah. The only place where trump would be acceptable is as a footnote in a history book. Get that filth out of the way.

There are better way to live. But we’re used to a certain level of comfort, that includes not doing the many, many upkeep tasks to grow food, maintain home, clothing, etc. so we trade some time for currencies, that is then traded with other people, and the leftover currency allows us to indulge in fun things that are also complex and high maintenance, so they’re done by other.

Well, that’s the theory. In practice, working a full-time job barely, if even, covers the minimum expanses required to live, which keep going up anyway, so you have to work more to barely go by, which thankfully will let you forget that you won’t make anywhere near enough money for leisure time. Good thing you won’t have any, eh?

sigh knowing we have the technologies, right now, to cover all basic needs, including food and housing, for cheap, but still do with the charade of inflation so that a few select individual can extract all our time from us is really sad.

It mostly did, yes. But when a big issue pops up, X still gets the occasional patch.

And, since this is a bit of a hot topic it seems, that sounds fair to me. X is the past, wayland is the future. I’m just annoyed at people glossing over the reasons not everyone can move on.

While it’s certainly winded down over time, XOrg is still maintained. Last fix was released in september 2025. Is it enough? It never is. But that’s not really an argument to move from “working” to “not working as well” for now.

Yeah, I know of such “solution”. But what is the point of forcing the change when it doesn’t bring me tangible benefits, brings significant downsides, and only some of these downsides have half-useful workarounds?

I have no problem with whether wayland existing or it becoming the new standard, but forcing people to move in these circumstances seems a bit silly, especially when some issues stem from people having hardware from one manufacturer that represents around 75% of general consumer systems (according to Steam survey, which might or might not be representative but sure brings a lot of people).

Thankfully, at least with the distributions I use, switching back and forth is trivial. But given the circumstances, I don’t really understand the extremely heavy push.

What are you talking about? You can copy-paste from Terminal programs to GUI programs and vice-versa like everywhere else (with the terminal of course needing CTRL + SHIFT + C / V, which as we know is historical to Unix terminals). I’m doing that for years, so does my family. It works just fine.

I’m not talking about copy/pasting from the terminal emulator, thank you very much. Just run VIM and have it copy/paste from the global clipboard without setting up esoteric, sometimes DE-dependent stuff, and you’ll understand.

And bringing up Nvidia now really is bending down backwards to paint Wayland as bad while it’s painfully obvious it’s the driver’s fault.

Sure. I did not say it was wayland fault. Or anyone else, really. I explained why some people could not “just move on to wayland already you nincompoop” with very tangible issues that still prevent them from doing so. Who is at fault is of no consequence here. If I switch to wayland, I lose features, I have a broken desktop, and throwing away thousands of equipment because “it’s the future” does not sound that great. It’s just a matter of fact. Whether it’s wayland’s fault, plasma’s implementation’s fault, nvidia’s fault, or anyone else’s is irrelevant to the user experience here.

People can’t go “stop using X and use wayland”, and ignore raised issues by saying “no, that issue you’re having is not a big issue”, “that issue you’re having is not wayland’s fault”, “that issue you’re having does not concern most people”, etc. And reading replies in this thread, it seems people have a hard time imagining circumstances beyond their own.

That sounds more like escape sequence not being interpreted, but maybe? It’s a mess.

Basically, in some implementations (it’s true for at least KDE Plasma), the console app is never seen as “active” (the terminal emulator is), and as such can’t access the clipboard, something like that. There’s third party program you can use, and plugins for things like VIM, but when you get a step further with remote clipboard it’s even worse. And even when solutions exists, there’s weird caveat like “it will work all the time except if you’ve clicked somewhere in the past few seconds” or something.

I’m sure things will improve over time, but “we’re not there yet”.

It does not usually contain candy however.

There’s a market to look into then.

I can’t copy/paste from a terminal program to a GUI program under wayland without jumping through hoops and configuring every individual program to use some variant of a DE-specific utility that bypass wayland’s model to peek/poke into the clipboard.

That’s not a minor feature to me. And in my (and probably some other people) case, trading basic copy/paste for not-yet-implemented differential DPI scaling does not sound too great.

Some people are adamant to not switch, but I swear some people are so adamant to force everyone else to switch without even considering that their use case might not match other people use case, it’s infuriating. It’s not like me staying on X will degrade everyone else’s experience of the new shiniest thing.

Distribution moving to wayland might be good in the very long term, but for now, when you have a 3080Ti (a relatively recent card) and it breaks basic desktop composition when switching to wayland, telling people “just throw it out and buy another card instead of keeping your currently working system” is not going to help anyone.

There are still existing issues with wayland that do not exist on X11. I’m talking, using last-gen consumer grade hardware that will break basic applications like, who knows, a web browser. Meanwhile the “upside” are extremely marginal to a lot of people. Different screen scaling isn’t implemented using proper DPI on most implementations, variable refresh rate is not something most people care about (I sure don’t care that my second monitor is capped at 120Hz instead of 144Hz because of my first monitor), etc.

So, yeah, for some people, it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of having a stable, working system vs. a broken system where basic features are not a given.

If you took an uber and the car was a horse-driven carriage and your seat was a hole in a rotted plank, you’d complain.

Yeah, so, switching to wayland still break copy/paste from terminal apps, still requires me to disable all hardware acceleration lest firefox freeze and plasma’s effects are visually broken, and it randomly swap my screen on each boot.

Meanwhile, no issue at all on X. I’ll still wait a bit.

No need. As I said, it’s still here, in plain view, for people to see. When you see someone harming someone else, your blame goes to some movie instead of to the people involved. You’ve been very adamant about that.

Lol. You’re aware that the whole discussion remain available for all to see? Ignoring things won’t change anything.