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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: August 21st, 2023

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  • I won’t count myself as an expert, so feel free to skip this post if it isn’t helpful. My background is in U.S. history. I can’t speak to Canadian or British documentation.

    Oral history and written history are two different matters and people will weigh them differently. I have not read Mr. Swankey’s work, but I would want to know more about what kind of “vetting” the Haida did before I can judge the impartiality of the work. (Edit to add, if you want to talk about the issues with oral history, my family’s oral history describes tribal members removing blankets from the graves of people who had passed from illness. This would be post-civil war northern plains. When I worked in collaboration with Crow staff from the Little bighorn site, I was informed that blankets were a status symbol and all us women had to wear them for a special event. I remember this because it was 90F out and I was ready to strangle the chief of interpretation with said blanket. But if this is true, then it could be interpolated that blankets–in this area–were valuable enough both practically and socially that some people would have enough motivation to take them in that manner. However, an entire narrative can not be written solely from such stories. Rather they should be small pieces of the bigger picture, supported or refuted by multiple sources.)

    According to a U.S. history professor I worked with who was trying to trace primary sources for this aspect of history on the U.S. side, he believed this claim originated from a passing mention in a letter written by a British officer (I’m sorry, it was so long ago I can’t remember the officer’s name and date of the letter, and I don’t want to dox my coworker since his professional opinion may be unpopular).

    He had been unable to find any further follow up in the written record, specifically in relation to any official U.S. government policy or general implementation of such a strategy. This was some years ago so I am unaware if his research produced any more primary sources. Thus far the letter he read has been the only direct primary source I’ve seen in it’s entirety. Like you, I have come up short when trying to locate documentation. The Wikipedia (yes, I know) page for smallpox lists several sources under the “biological warfare” section related to what is written there and it could be interesting to look into those publications.

    I also have had questions about how people understood disease at this time, and how would they determine the unlucky guy who would get to “gift” infected goods and potentially be infected himself. I have to wonder how this was supposed to work logistically based on their (lack of) understanding of viruses. Maybe I’m over complicating this, but I would not be eager to mess around with anything from a smallpox victim any more than necessary.

    This is a difficult subject to examine though and find the actual facts, both because of how long ago this was, and because of the emotional aspect. I still remember a (different) professor I had in college when I was studying for my bachelor’s in history who was giddy about how many white people had died from tobacco and how they deserved it and it was great the native tribes got revenge like that. I had a hard time accepting him as a (reasonably) unbiased source afterwards, though he would count as an expert.


  • Thank you for trying to explain. I don’t like it but I appreciate you typing it out. Despite this, I still can’t wrap my head around how a, as you say, racist caricature can rationally warrant a brutal murder in response. Someone making fun of my mother or brother would not elicit such a reaction from me. When the reaction is so extremely out of proportion with the crime and we hear these explanations why this makes sense, the religion and it’s followers who feel such a way become their own caricature. Even without the cartoons.

    Do they hope to elicit fear and respect? Because this sort of psychopathy from any social group does the opposite. Respectfully, there is a difference between condemning such an act full stop, and disagreeing with what they did but still thinking it makes sense and people shouldn’t do things that force such an action. The later is what leads Western countries to conclude Islam is incompatible in societies that have, perhaps, once held such a worldview, but in the last thousand years have collectively agreed that is no longer allowed.

    You claim only one or two may attack… but holding the same mindset as the killers is still not compatible with Western ideals. I can think someone is an idiot who is going to hell, but that should be the extent of my involvement in their life and the rest is between them and God.


  • I know they won’t read this comment, but I’d really love to hear from the people who down vote! What do you disagree with? I’ve lived all over the U.S. and even overseas, but I haven’t been everywhere in the world so the great thing about a board like this is people with different experiences can share them. I can speak to my own observations but if I’m missing something please tell me!


  • dilithium_dame@startrek.websitetoMemes@lemmy.mlHow about that?
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    1 year ago

    And yet, their actual representation is giving everyone fits. Do you want to get rid of Boebert or not? You can double down on your statement but you won’t accomplish anything besides putting me in my place. The people of this region still vote and the way our government is set up means large cities don’t get to dictate everything. If that were the case NY and LA would be ruling Denver and they could claim to be the “real people” of the U.S.

    Also, where are you getting the number 1,000? That is no where close to the number of people in her district, which is also geographically fairly large (yes, because of the lack of population density). You can be just as dismissive towards everything I’m saying if you don’t like it, but for those of you who have an interest in how Boebert and those of her ilk end up in government, I’m trying to give some insight into her district. Maybe it will be helpful to someone who cares.


  • dilithium_dame@startrek.websitetoMemes@lemmy.mlHow about that?
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    1 year ago

    Wow, that’s a dismissive statement. So because this district isn’t Denver they don’t count as the people of Colorado? We have a diverse mix of people here–yes some of the stereotypical rednecks, ranchers, and resource extraction jobs, but also artsy types, old hippies, organic farmers, civil service for the public lands, and many members of the local tribes. People have moved here from all over the country (and in some cases the world) with many different experiences and perspectives on life. Lumping them all together as voices that don’t matter doesn’t help anyone.


  • dilithium_dame@startrek.websitetoMemes@lemmy.mlHow about that?
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    1 year ago

    I don’t know if you want an actual answer but this particular idiot’s opponent was a millionaire whose entire campaign strategy was spamming people with mail pointing out he is not Boebert…so vote for him on that merit? He couldn’t even make any statements on how he would help voters of this district or take a stand on any issues. He’s running again so we’ll see if he has learned anything.

    This area (like so many around the country) is struggling. Outside of the die-hard Republicans who are a lost cause, people don’t appreciate a rich outsider talking down to them. The frustrating part is during the Democratic primary there was another candidate who had a great, progressive platform that included healthcare, taxing the rich, environment, etc. He came in last 😭 So Democrats chose the status quo, and their candidate struggled to get people excited to vote FOR him rather than AGAINST Boebert.

    I think this is a problem that plagues the Democrats on a national level and isn’t a direct reflection of “stupid” rural voters.