Utter bullshit.
It’s not about driving from a to be.
Have you ever brought your old and ill grandparent to a doctors appointment 20kms away when he can’t hold it anymore - via train/bus?
Have you ever took your grandma to the grocery shop via train/bus? Have you ever get home as fast as possible because of a accident at home? Have you ever done anything outside of a big city?!
People who advocate for better public transportation usually also advocate for walkable neighborhoods. Your grandparents would not need a car to go to grocery, it’ll be at a walking distance. Same for doctors.
As for emergencies, yes, a car would be nice. But you can always get a can in that situation. No need to destroy the planet every other day.
Let me ask you this, have you ever done anything outside of a car only dystopia?
My god are you privileged. 2 towns 30km apart. Less than 10k population not trainstation, no doc, no hospital. Calling people words that just live and work for others is such a cunt move.
Are you willingly missing the point? Those town exist like this due to having a car centered society. Look at any other country where car isn’t the only means of transportation. Towns are closer together, with shared infrastructure so that such a situation does not arise in the first place. That’s what everyone’s advocating for. No one’s calling you a monster for using cars in a car dependent society. But realize that things can be better, and vote for change wherever possible.
And about the privileged thing, I literally grew up in rural India. I’m not privileged at all lol.
@Miclux Oh wow, it’s almost if villages or small towns could be improved with better public transportation options and fewer cars. This is a great revelation, thank you for this chat.
In places designed before/not for cars you’d have places within walking distance like groceries. In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
I mean, I’m 100% for better public transportation and urban centers designed around walking, but let’s compare apples to apples here.
They didn’t make a straw man argument, they had a point. It’s a genuine issue and they deserve better than a flippant remark telling them to make grandpa wear diapers so he can piss himself on his walk from the bus stop.
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
Do you not understand how incontinence works? Someone who can’t hold their bowels or bladder wears diapers, full-stop. Sometimes this is due to an underlying issue that can be fixed, sometimes not. In either case the person has to wear adult diapers at least some of the time.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. This person will be wearing diapers regardless of their transport. But you seem to disagree if they are being driven in a car. Therefore, would you allow an incontinent person to not wear diapers in your car, where they may have an accident?
My point is that the “piss in the car” comment was mean, thoughtless, and added nothing. If grandpa is incontinent, then he’ll wear diapers regardless of the car or the bus.
Your comment was either a.) implying that messing themselves in public was better than in relative privacy, or b.) if you use a car, grandpa doesn’t get to wear Depends.
Take your pick.
It might not be what you meant, but you were too busy being a jerk to notice that it’s what you said.
The photos OP is sharing are depicting 10 or more lanes. That’s precisely about a big city. Meanwhile the situation you describe, e.g doctor 20km away, no train/bus access, seems to be about not a big city. I believe you two are not talking about the same problem even though both are valid.
Even cities below a population of 100k have their own hospital and dozens of doctor’s offices all within a ten minute walking distance from each other.
Sure, if you live in that ten minute walking distance. Sometimes I think progressive movements are their own worst enemies. The nearest urgent care facility to me is 26 mins, by bike, on main roads that are used by cars and trucks. Some spots have a bike lane (which is its own joke and hardly safe). I’d love to see how many actually fall into the “ten minute walk”. I don’t even have a pharmacy that close, and we’ve all heard the meme about a Walgreens/CVS at every corner.
Point is, those who are able to use mass transit or are in places where things are conveniently close seem to always chime in with victim blaming of those who aren’t like them. It’s a subtle version of the “if you don’t like it, move”.
I would love a world where everything is local and self-sufficient, but all the calls to action never talk about how to get there from here, they only say we should do “something” now. A trip without a roadmap will just get you lost.
Yes, yes, we get it: folks like you and @Miclux@lemmings.world are those special snowflakes who’re always the exception to any possible argument an urbanist could make.
But guess what: that very quality means that people like you are such a tiny minority that you don’t matter and there’s no reason anybody should give a shit what you think (on this topic, anyway). By all means, keep driving! Since you’re a rounding error, it won’t make a difference anyway!
Now quit your reactionary bitching and let society solve the problems for the vast majority of folks that the solutions do apply to.
I live in an ivory tower in Brooklyn where there’s like 5 groceries, urgent cares, and pharmacies within a 10 minute sidewalked walk. (and not fancy Brooklyn). Sometimes I forget most everywhere else kind of sucks for transit, but I’m lucky enough that I can choose not to live those places.
All you’d have to do is do away with american zoning regulations and use european urban design principles instead. The market itself is impatiently waiting for that change in policy to happen.
this is a weird instance, to be sure. I thought it was satire, but there’s a lot of people who seem to lack the ability to think critically about transportation in general.
your comment isn’t even irrational at all. but you’re being downvoted because you don’t ascribe to the theory that the world should be all butterflies and rainbows and everyone can just walk everywhere or take public transport.
public transportation can be great. but it can be so bad it’s basically unusable.
all stuff I read in here sounds like a bunch of kids preparing for debate team about whether cars are “good” or “evil”
Utter bullshit. It’s not about driving from a to be.
Have you ever brought your old and ill grandparent to a doctors appointment 20kms away when he can’t hold it anymore - via train/bus? Have you ever took your grandma to the grocery shop via train/bus? Have you ever get home as fast as possible because of a accident at home? Have you ever done anything outside of a big city?!
People who advocate for better public transportation usually also advocate for walkable neighborhoods. Your grandparents would not need a car to go to grocery, it’ll be at a walking distance. Same for doctors.
As for emergencies, yes, a car would be nice. But you can always get a can in that situation. No need to destroy the planet every other day.
Let me ask you this, have you ever done anything outside of a car only dystopia?
My god are you privileged. 2 towns 30km apart. Less than 10k population not trainstation, no doc, no hospital. Calling people words that just live and work for others is such a cunt move.
Are you willingly missing the point? Those town exist like this due to having a car centered society. Look at any other country where car isn’t the only means of transportation. Towns are closer together, with shared infrastructure so that such a situation does not arise in the first place. That’s what everyone’s advocating for. No one’s calling you a monster for using cars in a car dependent society. But realize that things can be better, and vote for change wherever possible.
And about the privileged thing, I literally grew up in rural India. I’m not privileged at all lol.
@Miclux @cypherpunks I have done all of these things because I’ve lived in big cities with decent to good public transportation.
So you proved my point. Try it in a village or very small town.
@Miclux Oh wow, it’s almost if villages or small towns could be improved with better public transportation options and fewer cars. This is a great revelation, thank you for this chat.
In places designed before/not for cars you’d have places within walking distance like groceries. In the doctor scenario, we’ve had adult diapers for a long time. Your solution is you let them pee in your car?
I don’t know why you’d argue with someone that thinks driving to Walmart is the best humans have to offer.
That really does sum up the Stockholm syndrome some folks have for fucked up America’s zoning code, doesn’t it?
And your solution is they shit themselves on public transportation?
I mean, I’m 100% for better public transportation and urban centers designed around walking, but let’s compare apples to apples here.
They didn’t make a straw man argument, they had a point. It’s a genuine issue and they deserve better than a flippant remark telling them to make grandpa wear diapers so he can piss himself on his walk from the bus stop.
Do you not understand how incontinence works? Someone who can’t hold their bowels or bladder wears diapers, full-stop. Sometimes this is due to an underlying issue that can be fixed, sometimes not. In either case the person has to wear adult diapers at least some of the time.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. This person will be wearing diapers regardless of their transport. But you seem to disagree if they are being driven in a car. Therefore, would you allow an incontinent person to not wear diapers in your car, where they may have an accident?
My point is that the “piss in the car” comment was mean, thoughtless, and added nothing. If grandpa is incontinent, then he’ll wear diapers regardless of the car or the bus.
Your comment was either a.) implying that messing themselves in public was better than in relative privacy, or b.) if you use a car, grandpa doesn’t get to wear Depends.
Take your pick.
It might not be what you meant, but you were too busy being a jerk to notice that it’s what you said.
@Miclux @cypherpunks have you ever done anything inside of a big city? have you ever commuted to work?
Have you ever done this between small villages? 30km apart? Have fun.
I actually do so regularly
The photos OP is sharing are depicting 10 or more lanes. That’s precisely about a big city. Meanwhile the situation you describe, e.g doctor 20km away, no train/bus access, seems to be about not a big city. I believe you two are not talking about the same problem even though both are valid.
Even cities below a population of 100k have their own hospital and dozens of doctor’s offices all within a ten minute walking distance from each other.
Sure, if you live in that ten minute walking distance. Sometimes I think progressive movements are their own worst enemies. The nearest urgent care facility to me is 26 mins, by bike, on main roads that are used by cars and trucks. Some spots have a bike lane (which is its own joke and hardly safe). I’d love to see how many actually fall into the “ten minute walk”. I don’t even have a pharmacy that close, and we’ve all heard the meme about a Walgreens/CVS at every corner.
Point is, those who are able to use mass transit or are in places where things are conveniently close seem to always chime in with victim blaming of those who aren’t like them. It’s a subtle version of the “if you don’t like it, move”.
I would love a world where everything is local and self-sufficient, but all the calls to action never talk about how to get there from here, they only say we should do “something” now. A trip without a roadmap will just get you lost.
Yes, yes, we get it: folks like you and @Miclux@lemmings.world are those special snowflakes who’re always the exception to any possible argument an urbanist could make.
But guess what: that very quality means that people like you are such a tiny minority that you don’t matter and there’s no reason anybody should give a shit what you think (on this topic, anyway). By all means, keep driving! Since you’re a rounding error, it won’t make a difference anyway!
Now quit your reactionary bitching and let society solve the problems for the vast majority of folks that the solutions do apply to.
Where do you live that sucks so hard?
I live in an ivory tower in Brooklyn where there’s like 5 groceries, urgent cares, and pharmacies within a 10 minute sidewalked walk. (and not fancy Brooklyn). Sometimes I forget most everywhere else kind of sucks for transit, but I’m lucky enough that I can choose not to live those places.
All you’d have to do is do away with american zoning regulations and use european urban design principles instead. The market itself is impatiently waiting for that change in policy to happen.
You don’t even ever lived in a city with less than 10k population. No doc, no hospital. No train. Just bullshit talks from privileged people.
I’ve lived in a few towns with under 10,000 inhabitants. All have had doctors, groceries, schools and regular bus services.
this is a weird instance, to be sure. I thought it was satire, but there’s a lot of people who seem to lack the ability to think critically about transportation in general.
your comment isn’t even irrational at all. but you’re being downvoted because you don’t ascribe to the theory that the world should be all butterflies and rainbows and everyone can just walk everywhere or take public transport.
public transportation can be great. but it can be so bad it’s basically unusable.
all stuff I read in here sounds like a bunch of kids preparing for debate team about whether cars are “good” or “evil”