“BuT tHeY aRe CoLoNiZeRs AnD iSrAeL sHoUlDn’T eXiSt!”
Cool. So every country is gonna give back their land to the indigenous peoples they took it from, right? Right?!
We can start with America and work our way down the list from there.
Someday people will figure out that all of this, all of it, everything we have, is built with the blood of innocents. And we only have three options now: start repairing these relationships through kindness, grace, and good works; watch one side wipe out the other; or fuel the ongoing violence in perpetuity.
That’s all we have left and I personally prefer the first option but so, so many people opt for 2 or 3 that it makes me numb.
BuT tHeY aRe CoLoNiZeRs AnD iSrAeL sHoUlDn’T eXiSt
Cool. So every country is gonna give back their land to the indigenous peoples they took it from, right? Right?!
First: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Back. Second: Israeli oppression isn’t limited to the past; it’s an omnipresent facet of Palestinian life even when there’s no full-blown genocide going on. Israel shouldn’t exist because it’s presently a colonizer state actively doing colonization; at least states like America have evolved past their settler colonialist roots to some extent. Third: What kindness do you want the West Bank to offer Israel? Tell me in detail what you’re proposing here.
I know. I’m in favor, to the degree that it’s possible and non-punitive. But until we’re prepared to do it at home we cannot be demanding it abroad
I fully concur that Israel is an oppressive state and deserves sanctions. Even more so now. Netenyahu is a criminal and so is most of his cabinet. I won’t equivocate on that. The hasidics especially are despicable. I just know there are a whole lot of reasonable people living in Israel who ought not lose their nationality at this stage
first of all I never said which had to come from where or when. But if you want to be serious, them I expect kindness in the form of ousting Hamas. That’s it. Get rid of the people whose charter is the destruction of the Jewish state in favor of their own.
Edit: call it performative, but you were at 0 votes on your reply and I’m using my vote to put you at +1 because you are engaging in genuine dialogue, so far
But until we’re prepared to do it at home we cannot be demanding it abroad
Why…? It’s possible (and, in fact, imperative) to confront justice at home and abroad.
I just know there are a whole lot of reasonable people living in Israel who ought not lose their nationality at this stage
I mean, I don’t think they’ll be especially hurt if the citizenship portion of their passport changes from “Israel” to “Palestine” or “Israel but without Apartheid.” “Kick them all out” isn’t a common proposal at all in serious policy discussions; hell it’s not even what Hamas is pushing for.
But if you want to be serious, them I expect kindness in the form of ousting Hamas.
Hamas doesn’t have a significant presence in the West Bank, which is why I specified it: There’s (essentially) no Hamas in the West Bank, but they’re still being driven from their lands day by day. It’s a perfect natural experiment on what you can expect without Hamas (and without armed resistance, more broadly), and the results aren’t what you proposed.
Get rid of the people whose charter is the destruction of the Jewish state in favor of their own.
As of at least 2017, that is not necessarily the case, but also: Why is it wrong to attempt to depose the state whose central motivation and ideological basis is oppressing and ethnically cleansing them? If deposing Hamas was a realistic solution to anything, there would’ve been some progress towards peace in the West Bank rather than ever-escalating ethnic cleansing. The reason Hamas isn’t being deposed is that there’s no reason for a Palestinian (or, frankly, anyone else) to believe their liberation will come without armed struggle. Israel has been shown kindness repeatedly in the past but completely failed to reciprocate it.
“BuT tHeY aRe CoLoNiZeRs AnD iSrAeL sHoUlDn’T eXiSt!”
Cool. So every country is gonna give back their land to the indigenous peoples they took it from, right? Right?!
We can start with America and work our way down the list from there.
Someday people will figure out that all of this, all of it, everything we have, is built with the blood of innocents. And we only have three options now: start repairing these relationships through kindness, grace, and good works; watch one side wipe out the other; or fuel the ongoing violence in perpetuity.
That’s all we have left and I personally prefer the first option but so, so many people opt for 2 or 3 that it makes me numb.
I wish. And while we’re at it, tell the British Museum to return the stuff they stole.
First: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Back. Second: Israeli oppression isn’t limited to the past; it’s an omnipresent facet of Palestinian life even when there’s no full-blown genocide going on. Israel shouldn’t exist because it’s presently a colonizer state actively doing colonization; at least states like America have evolved past their settler colonialist roots to some extent. Third: What kindness do you want the West Bank to offer Israel? Tell me in detail what you’re proposing here.
I know. I’m in favor, to the degree that it’s possible and non-punitive. But until we’re prepared to do it at home we cannot be demanding it abroad
I fully concur that Israel is an oppressive state and deserves sanctions. Even more so now. Netenyahu is a criminal and so is most of his cabinet. I won’t equivocate on that. The hasidics especially are despicable. I just know there are a whole lot of reasonable people living in Israel who ought not lose their nationality at this stage
first of all I never said which had to come from where or when. But if you want to be serious, them I expect kindness in the form of ousting Hamas. That’s it. Get rid of the people whose charter is the destruction of the Jewish state in favor of their own.
Edit: call it performative, but you were at 0 votes on your reply and I’m using my vote to put you at +1 because you are engaging in genuine dialogue, so far
I cannot imagine anything more trivial than that.
Why…? It’s possible (and, in fact, imperative) to confront justice at home and abroad.
I mean, I don’t think they’ll be especially hurt if the citizenship portion of their passport changes from “Israel” to “Palestine” or “Israel but without Apartheid.” “Kick them all out” isn’t a common proposal at all in serious policy discussions; hell it’s not even what Hamas is pushing for.
Hamas doesn’t have a significant presence in the West Bank, which is why I specified it: There’s (essentially) no Hamas in the West Bank, but they’re still being driven from their lands day by day. It’s a perfect natural experiment on what you can expect without Hamas (and without armed resistance, more broadly), and the results aren’t what you proposed.
As of at least 2017, that is not necessarily the case, but also: Why is it wrong to attempt to depose the state whose central motivation and ideological basis is oppressing and ethnically cleansing them? If deposing Hamas was a realistic solution to anything, there would’ve been some progress towards peace in the West Bank rather than ever-escalating ethnic cleansing. The reason Hamas isn’t being deposed is that there’s no reason for a Palestinian (or, frankly, anyone else) to believe their liberation will come without armed struggle. Israel has been shown kindness repeatedly in the past but completely failed to reciprocate it.