I’m not pleased they’re being deployed, but these guys aren’t choosing to go to these places. They signed up for national defense (and not the kind that blows up schools in a desert on the other side of the world) and often helping with major disasters.
The Texas National Guard absolutely did not sign up for policing cities in Illinois or Oregon, and I’d bet vast majority are not pleased to be there.
Federalized National guard troops are under Title 10 Authority.
Under Title 10 USC 890 Article 90: Willfully disobeying a lawful order in wartime is punishable with the death penalty.
With the executive branch claiming wartime powers and the DoJ willing to pursue any claim they want, they could certainly choose to pursue the maximum punishment to make an example out of someone.
The ranks of the JAG and military judges hasn’t been purged yet, so I believe it is very inlikely that a court-marshal would reach this punishment, but these orders aren’t something a Soldier can just walk away from without serious legal and financial repurcussions.
What they do in Chicago matters far more than their presence there. Every Soldier needs to recognize their ultimate purpose is to defend the freedom and liberty of their nation’s citizens. They must have a line in the sand that they will refuse to cross and are willing to die for, but simply deploying to a city to stand outside a federal building is not that line.
They can’t just quit. They’re under a signed contract, which can be penalized with jail time if breached. Refusing orders is also not as simple as it sounds. Each soldier has a duty to refuse an unlawful order. However, if you disobey a direct order, and it is later determined to have been a lawful one, you will now be punished for failing to obey orders, might be a slap on the wrist, might be a dishonorable discharge, or could even be a court martial with jail time.
For the orders part, I believe there is a JAG hotline to call and get a “ruling” or advice. That would in theory take the legal ramifications of the decision off the guardsman. But I don’t know how well that actually works in practice. It is unlikely to be a smooth as it sounds since the person on the phone doesn’t want to put their skin on the line either.
And sadly military prison is probably way better then where ICE puts the people they detain. Some days I am not sure humans deserve to continue to exist.
That’s it exactly. I’m so sick of these dickheads jumping online and talking all the way out of their ass ‘just refuse unlawful orders, bro’. Like their COC isn’t gonna fuck them every kind of sideways for refusing orders via the UCMJ. Like, this isn’t spending a weekend in jail and then it’s over kinda shit, this will absolutely ruin your life. You could be spending years in the brig, reduced rank, reduced pay, possible dishonorable discharge while trying to fight the charges if you manage to win the case. On top of that, you want these soldiers/airmen to directly bring a legal fight to a federal administration that is likely to fuck them despite any legitimate grounds to refuse unlawful orders/conscientiously object? Get fucking real. Military personnel have the regular law AND the UCMJ to fucking deal with. These bros are fucking trapped.
This is also an administration that I do not think would have a problem arranging the deaths of any serviceman who decides not to follow orders, legal or extralegal.
Canadian here, so take this with a grain of salt. Honestly I find it a bit hard to be empathetic for people who signed up to be in the military and then don’t have the courage to stand up for the constitution which they swore an oath to. Granted, I understand the oath they swore was also to obey their president and their governor, and that the constitutionality of Trump’s orders is being actively debated, but if your own military force is occupying the land of your own citizens without their consent, you also have a responsibility to speak out. Granted, I understand national guardsmen also have restrictions in terms of their political activism, but they are not silenced. Where is the letter to the editor from the ~400k off-duty national guardsmen to denounce what effectively amounts for waging war against your own citizens?
Let me get this straight. You’re big and tough enough to volunteer to literally risk your life to uphold principles, to literally kill people, and destroy things. All of it, because you’re just that brave, and strong, and determined and disciplined. But, you’re afraid of a contract and some temporary jail time? Doing the right thing is now suddenly just unthinkably over the line because of a piece of paper?
I’m just completely done with this brain rot hero worship nonsense. FUCK THESE TROOPS and the sociopathic cheerleaders that get online and defend them constantly. You all are a big contributor to the destruction of our constitutional democracy.
I’m not pleased they’re being deployed, but these guys aren’t choosing to go to these places. They signed up for national defense (and not the kind that blows up schools in a desert on the other side of the world) and often helping with major disasters.
The Texas National Guard absolutely did not sign up for policing cities in Illinois or Oregon, and I’d bet vast majority are not pleased to be there.
Yeah, they are “just following orders”.
Then fucking quit or refuse the orders.
That seems like an easy thing until you consider:
Federalized National guard troops are under Title 10 Authority.
Under Title 10 USC 890 Article 90: Willfully disobeying a lawful order in wartime is punishable with the death penalty.
With the executive branch claiming wartime powers and the DoJ willing to pursue any claim they want, they could certainly choose to pursue the maximum punishment to make an example out of someone.
The ranks of the JAG and military judges hasn’t been purged yet, so I believe it is very inlikely that a court-marshal would reach this punishment, but these orders aren’t something a Soldier can just walk away from without serious legal and financial repurcussions.
What they do in Chicago matters far more than their presence there. Every Soldier needs to recognize their ultimate purpose is to defend the freedom and liberty of their nation’s citizens. They must have a line in the sand that they will refuse to cross and are willing to die for, but simply deploying to a city to stand outside a federal building is not that line.
They can’t just quit. They’re under a signed contract, which can be penalized with jail time if breached. Refusing orders is also not as simple as it sounds. Each soldier has a duty to refuse an unlawful order. However, if you disobey a direct order, and it is later determined to have been a lawful one, you will now be punished for failing to obey orders, might be a slap on the wrist, might be a dishonorable discharge, or could even be a court martial with jail time.
For the orders part, I believe there is a JAG hotline to call and get a “ruling” or advice. That would in theory take the legal ramifications of the decision off the guardsman. But I don’t know how well that actually works in practice. It is unlikely to be a smooth as it sounds since the person on the phone doesn’t want to put their skin on the line either.
You also go to prison before you’re tried. Even if it’s an illegal order. And military prison isn’t a fun place.
And sadly military prison is probably way better then where ICE puts the people they detain. Some days I am not sure humans deserve to continue to exist.
That’s it exactly. I’m so sick of these dickheads jumping online and talking all the way out of their ass ‘just refuse unlawful orders, bro’. Like their COC isn’t gonna fuck them every kind of sideways for refusing orders via the UCMJ. Like, this isn’t spending a weekend in jail and then it’s over kinda shit, this will absolutely ruin your life. You could be spending years in the brig, reduced rank, reduced pay, possible dishonorable discharge while trying to fight the charges if you manage to win the case. On top of that, you want these soldiers/airmen to directly bring a legal fight to a federal administration that is likely to fuck them despite any legitimate grounds to refuse unlawful orders/conscientiously object? Get fucking real. Military personnel have the regular law AND the UCMJ to fucking deal with. These bros are fucking trapped.
This is also an administration that I do not think would have a problem arranging the deaths of any serviceman who decides not to follow orders, legal or extralegal.
We wouldn’t want them to be scared. Those naked brown kids zip tied together on the street however…
Canadian here, so take this with a grain of salt. Honestly I find it a bit hard to be empathetic for people who signed up to be in the military and then don’t have the courage to stand up for the constitution which they swore an oath to. Granted, I understand the oath they swore was also to obey their president and their governor, and that the constitutionality of Trump’s orders is being actively debated, but if your own military force is occupying the land of your own citizens without their consent, you also have a responsibility to speak out. Granted, I understand national guardsmen also have restrictions in terms of their political activism, but they are not silenced. Where is the letter to the editor from the ~400k off-duty national guardsmen to denounce what effectively amounts for waging war against your own citizens?
Let me get this straight. You’re big and tough enough to volunteer to literally risk your life to uphold principles, to literally kill people, and destroy things. All of it, because you’re just that brave, and strong, and determined and disciplined. But, you’re afraid of a contract and some temporary jail time? Doing the right thing is now suddenly just unthinkably over the line because of a piece of paper?
I’m just completely done with this brain rot hero worship nonsense. FUCK THESE TROOPS and the sociopathic cheerleaders that get online and defend them constantly. You all are a big contributor to the destruction of our constitutional democracy.