Basically “the USSR wasn’t that bad because Cuba and Germany”.
Tankies can’t make their arguments without whataboutism
His stance on the legality of homosexuality in Germany is completely wrong though. Both the west and the east had § 175 penal code (though the west had heavy case version in § 175a). The east changed the law in 1968, that is true, but it wasn’t absolutely erased rather criminalised sexual acts of adults with minors of all ages and it now also included lesbian sexual acts.
The west also changed the paragraph in 68 (below 21, former legal adulthood) and 74 (below 18)in a similar manner as the east, but lowered the threshold for lesbian sexual acts to below 14, which is the legal age for sexual consent.
The east finally got rid of the paragraph in 1988 ( two years before the absolution of the state) while it took the west until 94.
Basically the guy does not know shit. Source
Pretty sure getting called the F word once in a while is a thousand times better than being thrown into a prison labor camp.
But, to be fair, I haven’t been in a gulag before. 🤷♂️
I hear they have free brownies
Yes, the commies were very progressive. Everyone got sent to the gulag, men, women, homosexuals, bisexuals. No discrimination, comrade.
Same thing with voting! No one got to vote, it didn’t matter what your background is. Equal opportunity authoritarianism!
here’s a link to an obscure website to prove that you’re wrong and that i’m right and- HEEELP. HELP ME. COMRADES, PLEASE, HELP ME
Technically they voted just didn’t get to vote on who they voted for lol
My family never mentioned anything about voting. They had to go to May Day parades and other similar events, but there was never any voting (even of the fake kind).
Don’t know from which former socialist country you are from, but the Soviet Union had elections. Not free or useful ones, but they were there.
I know there were fake elections, I just don’t remember any of my family mentioning the fake voting.
Maybe this was automated (the party voted for you) by the 80s? The turnout numbers in the last election section of the Wikipedia article seem incredibly high.
Maybe it changed over time, I’m mainly familiar with the early USSR but I believe at that time they voted for candidates nominated by the party. But it was more of a formality since they were basically never rejected and they couldn’t vote on leadership, just the low level reps.
Edit: You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_Soviet_Union
That does sound right for early USSR. I don’t think this was a thing anymore in the 70s/80s (I was born in the tail end of the USSR, but I was really young).
I will ask my family members about this. Curious if this was even employed as a formality by the 80s.
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I don’t know, what would you call individuals who lionize an equal opportunity gulag or an equal opportunity firing squad?
Cowbee also making shit up per usual. Cuba still punished its queers.
Furthermore, the Marxist–Leninist framework that the regime utilized prioritized a change in production and class relations, with an emphasis on family and sexuality. In addition, the government emphasized the youth as the future of the Revolution which was a fundamental aim of the 1960s. [22] Education was used to promote “moralism” along with a sense of total commitment to the Revolution. In the same breath, anti-Revolutionary tactics were criticized and penalized, therefore listening to American music, wearing mini skirts, and men with long hair were all forms of anti-Revolutionary tactics along with homosexuality.[22] Accordingly, the Revolution defined a qualified citizen as one who promotes a productive labor force and homosexuality along with prostitution were deemed nonproductive and related to American decadence. Furthermore, oftentimes, men who had sex with other men were caught in bar raids to crackdown on commercial sex and drugs in the 1960s. Consequently, the Committees for Defense of the Revolution began to report homosexual people in the 1960s to authorities in response to a possible US invasion.
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Ah, yes! Having some corrupt goons edit and censor the media you consume is the height of civilization!
A great society to live in! Everyone is immigrating to Cuba! $2 a month salaries!
Unless you are a well connected government thug!
reminds me of china censoring gay scenes out of western films like they did with together lol
Oh silencing Naomi Wu because, while her social media wasn’t about anything that China would ban, engineering and making, she is gay, and her lesbian partner is Uighur. Complaining about the rapidly rising costs of housing, and the comparative stagnancy in pay, will get your social media shut down. Oh if you put a small image making fun of Xi, buried in the background of a densely textured scene, well we will threaten trade with your government to force them to stop the distribution of your game.
there is some truth to this. he doesn’t elaborate on how the West was behind at the time (and I see no reason to believe Kollontai was bi or that China is currently advancing), but until Stalin took power, the Soviet Union was ahead in gay rights
After the October Revolution of 1917, homosexuality was decriminalised in Soviet Russia with the repeal of the legal code of the Russian Empire, and this decriminalisation was confirmed with new criminal codes in 1922 and 1926. Under Joseph Stalin, the Soviet government reversed course in the late 1920s and promoted harsher policy against LGBTQ rights.
Cuba is also indeed in a positive position right now. in 2019 they mass-raided dissidents to pass a new constitution that limited executive powers and is one of the only 7 constitutions in the world today to protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity
The part about the German law is incorrect though - or actually just false.
It’s consistent with what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_East_Germany sources (note that decriminalization does not require equal age of consent)
Even then my point still stands as the decriminalisation happened in 68 and 69 for East and then West Germany. The alleged trend that the West was far behind is therefore simply false at least legally speaking to which he was referring to
After attempts at legal reform in 1952 and 1958, homosexuality was officially decriminalised in the GDR in 1968, although Paragraph 175 ceased to be enforced from 1957.
Meanwhile:
The Frankfurt Homosexual Trials of 1950/51 constituted a significant chapter in the persecution of homosexual men within the Federal Republic of Germany, representing a continuity from the Nazi era while also occurring under the new administration of the Adenauer era. Primarily instigated by the Frankfurt public prosecutor’s office, these trials were propelled forward with the aid of sex worker Otto Blankenstein, who served as a pivotal witness.[39]
Amidst prevailing socially conservative sentiments, the German Christian Democratic Union, wielding considerable political influence in post-war West Germany, generally disregarded or actively opposed gay rights issues. Conversely, their frequent coalition partners, the Free Democratic Party, often espoused stronger advocacy for civil liberties. However, as a smaller political entity, the Free Democratic Party was often reticent to antagonize the more socially conservative factions within the larger Christian Democratic Union.[38]
“More progressive than the West was at that time” varies wildly - countries which had adopted the Napoleonic Code had largely retained the decriminalization of homosexuality - including France, Italy, Poland, Belgium, the Netherlands, and much of Latin America.
I wouldn’t consider Latin America part of “the West” but fair. I didn’t know the Napoleonic Code has such a wide reach not just in spirit but also in text!
I’m not doubting you since you are PugJesus after all, but could you elaborate on the developments since the following passage until 1917, if time permits?
The 1810 Penal Code did not reinstate the offense of homosexuality but retained charges of public indecency and incitement to debauchery, adding outrage to public decency.[12] Napoleon I’s policy toward male homosexuality was generally repressive.
I’m not doubting you since you are PugJesus after all, but could you elaborate on the developments since the following passage until 1917, if time permits?
Oh, you absolutely should doubt me! I was just an undergrad History Major; I’m basically only a step above a layman. XD
As with many policies pursued by Napoleon, consistency is sorely lacking. He had several close companions who were openly homosexual and whose sexuality Napoleon freely referenced without implication of major censure; conversely, he gave police forces a free hand and, as mentioned, public morality laws were very broad - and ‘public morality’ laws almost always are broad for the reason that their real purpose is to provide law enforcement with an excuse to harass people whenever they like.
I’m most familiar with the LGBT community during the Third Republic (which would have been contemporary with the October Revolution), wherein severe social censure and harassment was combined with fairly open discussion of LGBT issues and a permissive legal environment - at least by the letter of the law. God knows the enforcers of the law are rarely so impartial as the letter, but that’s as true today as it was then.
Many German states also used the Napoleonic Code until Prussia united them, at which point they used Prussia’s code as a basis, which, notably, did retain criminalization of homosexuality.
Weirdly though it did also contain a legal basis for changing one’s legal gender.
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one track mind there, antiyanks
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no tug?
no pull?
