• Acamon@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    What’s the difference? Can I see piefed communities through Lemmy? Or do I need a different account and/or app?

    • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      6 hours ago

      Basically there are no differences, sure piefed has extra features but if you’re a mobile user no client acturally supports them. Also piefed is newer, less stable, and gets updated more frequently (so the difference between instances is bigger)

      • Skavau@piefed.social
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        6 hours ago

        The different features are the differences, and you can use them on the browser if the mobile clients are behind. Piefed is fine enough on it.

        • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          5 hours ago

          Its not that the mobile clients are behind its that piefed has no mobile clients whatsoever, just a bunch of Lemmy clients that also happen to support piefed.

    • Saapas@piefed.zip
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      12 hours ago

      Piefed has more features and different devs. From an user perspective they’re not very different.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        11 hours ago

        How different are the devs? Is it just a fork where they regularly pull the upstream lemmy? Or ground up?

        This account is getting pretty old and about due for a nuking and dessalines seems to be speedrunning being the tankie musk (right down to surrounding himself with bot-friends). Lemmy is still good enough software but looking for an offramp if you catch my drift.

        • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          the lemmy devs are commies

          is that not the obvious thing

          are the piefed devs commies too?

          what is this, the 1950s?

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            3 hours ago

            To be clear: I don’t give a fuck if someone identifies as communist. I disagree (more in the vicinity of demsoc, personally) but people have had more impractical ideologies.

            The issue is that dessalines et al are very much tankies. People who will say and do whatever it takes to say that china and russia are correct because both of those countries used to identify as communist (how long either actually was is up for debate). And that tends to manifest as actively supporting the invasion of Ukraine and the state sponsored ethnic cleansing by, among other horrors, rape of (among multiple ethnic groups) the Uyghurs

        • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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          11 hours ago

          Piefed is unrelated at all, afaik.

          They’re a bit cavalier with development, though: when they recently rolled out the feature of posts having a ‘selected answer’ a-la StackOverflow, someone pointed out that the marker for the selected answer should be on the post’s data structure, not the comment’s, so a commenter can’t hijack the marker — but the developer replied that they already moved on from that feature and won’t be changing it.

          • hendrik@palaver.p3x.de
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            10 hours ago

            Yes. Entirely different software. Different programming language and tech stack. Also different system requirements and feature set.

            Not sure about the developer spirit. PieFed development has traditionally been moving crazy fast and it gets like several new features every month. I think that’s a matter of focus. It comes with consequences, though. But I think overall the project is doing a good job with trying to be compatible to other software. Prioritizing important stuff and doing the right thing. Sometimes some things get done, rather than be 100% perfect. But past experience tells me things often get fixed or changed around once necessary. Not sure if that’s a wise decision here. The JSON exchanged between the servers is probably extra work if changed around later.

            • Skavau@piefed.social
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              10 hours ago

              I’d legit rather the software develop and occasionally spaff it up and break the server for a few hours every once in a while rather than the non-moving 5 year plans of Lemmy development.

              Also, usually piefed.social is the only instance that gets hit with this as, being the flagship server - it takes the brunt of more ‘experimental’ features. Most other servers don’t upgrade to the latest iteration until they’re sure it’s not going to break them.

              • hendrik@palaver.p3x.de
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                9 hours ago

                Good thing we have both development models and people can just pick what they like. I know which one I prefer. 😆 And seems Lemmy is approaching a release with their efforts of the last years as well, they’re at alpha.17 these days…

              • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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                9 hours ago

                break the server for a few hours every once in a while

                That’s not what botching the protocol does. It opens the way to mess up the posts that shouldn’t be messed up, until the devs get around to fixing it in the protocol and implement the fix on the server and all the clients change their implementation. By that time data on the posts can be irretrievably borked unless someone sits down and retroactively reassigns which answer is the the ‘selected’ one, which again might need an addition to the protocol because it isn’t a central database, except the dev also can’t actually unilaterally decide which is the ‘selected’ answer because the user might’ve changed the selected answer themselves.

                Does this sound like ‘breaking the server for a few hours’?

                This smells of fresh college-grad coding with people who can’t foresee how their programming decisions affect the software’s workings in the future.

                • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  3 hours ago

                  You’ve spent 5 hours now raging against this “mistake”.

                  A mistake that you didn’t realize is only rolled out on their testing instance.

                  You have more than one dev stating they are aware of it and it’s on the list to be addressed later, despite claiming you had no way of knowing that. You do as of a decent number of hours ago.

                  You have another dev stating that this thing you think is a horrible development failure would require DB access to exploit in the way you hypothesized. Together with this only being in the bleeding edge test instance, this invalidates the overwhelming majority of your complaints.

                  And then you have the sheer balls to tell another commenter their comment was worthless, as it was too much speculation? Your entire fucking thrust is based off not just speculation, but a critical misunderstanding of the situation.

                  If you have the development background you claim, go make a fucking pull request. I normally hate that sort of shit, but after you’ve pulled the shit you’ve pulled in these comments, throwing your dick around like some sort of hotshot?

                  Put your money where your mouth is.

                  I’ve only got ten years experience, mostly in IT infrastructure admin/engineering, but one of the biggest lessons I learned early was to save my criticism until I actually understood what was going on. Another big one was to just not be a dick bag. And to apologize instead of doubling down when I was shown I was wrong.

                  I guarantee that if you bring this kind of attitude to work, the only reason you’ve lasted is because you’re on a large team. You’d be out in the first month at any of the (smaller) places I’ve worked.

                • Rimu@crust.piefed.social
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                  8 hours ago

                  Haha

                  I have 25 years of experience at this and am well aware of the tradeoffs I’m making.

                  We’re not building a space shuttle, here. Lighten up.

                  • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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                    7 hours ago

                    I have a bit over twenty years with some of them spent at a site that had a million users daily. Seeing as we’re measuring dicks here.

                    We’re not building a space shuttle, here. Lighten up.

                    Come on man. It should be a mantra for web devs to never ever lose or bungle users’ data. You know, the thing that gives the web its entire worth, one person sharing with others their personal experience in overcoming the daily grind and tedium: them asking “how do you deal with this shit?” and others replying “well if you contort just so to keep your back from giving out, and press these buttons, you can in fact live to the end of the day”. This should persist on the web for years to come and for everyone to discover. But somehow you think that if you save five minutes on ruminating through your decisions, that’s worth a whole lot and everyone should cheer on you for implementing that change despite the fact that I could overwrite that reply with “you greedy schmuck need to shut up and do your miserable job because you suck”, and this is entirely okay with you.

                • Skavau@piefed.social
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                  9 hours ago

                  I’m speaking generally. I’d rather Piefed development speed and the side-effects that come with that than Lemmy’s stagnation.

                  • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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                    8 hours ago

                    Everyone could just write in a big Google Docs document (or any alternative thereof), this would allow anyone immediately implement any feature they want that’s achievable with text and images. Never mind that I could overwrite all your input with garbage, we aren’t picky about that.

            • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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              8 hours ago

              things often get fixed or changed around once necessary. Not sure if that’s a wise decision here. The JSON exchanged between the servers is probably extra work if changed around later.

              Exactly, changing a protocol is not like changing centralized functionality. Not only it introduces mess that could’ve been avoided and mandates some compatibility measures while every client picks up the modified protocol, but it also allows posts to be messed up while this is fixed — without a way to restore the data as it should be, because false data on the comments is indistinguishable from the user changing the selected answer.

              Messing up or losing users’ data should be the biggest no-no in web programming, but some people are remarkably carefree about it.

              • hendrik@palaver.p3x.de
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                7 hours ago

                It’s difficult to discuss development in public places like here. There’s always a hundred things on the backlog. People want this, other people want that and someone needs exactly the opposite if all of it. There are a a bazilion ways users can annoy each other and all of it needs fixing. Then a project needs to be stable and reliable. It also needs new features. Performance needs to be right… It’s a proper nightmare job to balance all of it and maintain a mid-sized project. On top of it people will feel entitled, send in security vulnerabilities, complicated stuff that needs review and messes with things, other devs want something to be cleaned up, changed around, want someone to write more or less unit tests… and that also needs time for a plethora of good communication. And then there’s the actual architecture design and coding, which isn’t easy to begin with.

                I didn’t study the code. But I’d bet the representation in the database stays the same, no matter which way it’s phrased on transport. It’s some sql relation between answer and post either way. A UI will also want to know how to style a comment at the point it processes that comment, so it makes sense to have it there. On the other hand it makes more sense for the semantics to have it attached to the post. Then there’s who can edit it. We need to trust incoming notes from third parties anyway. And maybe admins or mods can change it as well. They might be on arbitrary instances. So I’m not even sure if it changes anything with security.

                And then there’s always many ways to skin a cat in software development. We can have long meetings to write specifications. We can choose to be a bit more explorative and figure things out along the way. We can even choose to make mistakes and fix them later. I think that’s a great thing with computer programming. Fixing mistakes is usually very cheap compared to for example a mechanical engineer who maybe likes to avoid wrecking a $1m piece of equipment. But that also means software developers have the opportunity to work a different way. And there’s a time for each of the methods. The trick is to apply the correct one at the correct time. I really can’t make a good statement here, I’d need to read the code and judge based on all the nuances I just mentioned. It’s regularly not as simple as something appears from the outside.

                • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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                  5 hours ago

                  Wow, that’s amazing crock of a shit of a speech you have there. You don’t know anything about anything, but you’re ready to pump out a whole pageful about it. It’s quite impressive.

                  You didn’t study shit, but you bet it’s all fine. You bet the database stays the same, and the protocol is all fine, and nothing is ever bothered by anything. It’s all some ‘SQL’ bullshit, why bother about it when smelly nerds can bother about it all they want, right? It’s just some ‘SQL’ fucking nonsense, it means nothing anyway. Just style the UI and process the comment, and it all goes away, you fucking nerd, why are you ever bothered about anything?

                  sniff

                  Oh maybe it might in fact make more sense to have it processed by the post instead of the semantics being attached to the fuck of the comment, what the fuck do I know. Just edit the fuck out of it, it makes more sense on the other hand. We need to trust processing by the semantics of the sense, why not. Who can edit it, incoming parties, yeah! Admins or mods, I’m not even sure.

                  sniff

                  Then there’s the skin the cat, we can have many long meetings, the specifications, choose a bit, make mistakes, what the fuck do I know. A bit more explorative, make mistakes, fix them, it’s all fine. That’s the great thing. Fixing mistakes. sniff That’s the great thing with programming. It’s very cheap compared to, uh for example to, uh a mechanical, who maybe likes uh to avoid. But that also means. The opportunity. There’s a time bang for each bang of the methods. bang

                  sniff

                  I really can’t make a good statement here. It’s regularly not as simple. The trick is to apply the correct one.

          • Skavau@piefed.social
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            10 hours ago

            The Stack overflow function is, to my knowledge, only on the test instance currently.

            • [object Object]@lemmy.world
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              9 hours ago

              I’m quoting the response from the piefed dev in the announcement thread that popped up in the feed on .world. So it’s not my monkeys as to whether it’s on the test instance, but the response is what it is.

      • UnspecificGravity@piefed.social
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        9 hours ago

        I think the registration process and “official” app made piefed a more welcoming enrollment for people who are just casual users. Like, I had to explain a lot of shit to get my GF signed up for Lemmy. My grandma could sign up for piefed without much guidance.

    • SatyrSack@quokk.auOP
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      12 hours ago

      In terms of what content you can see, the difference between Lemmy and PieFed is effectively the same as the difference between two Lemmy instances. As long as the instances federate with one another, it does not matter which platform you use. You can definitely interact with PieFed from Lemmy just fine. In fact, you are doing so right now! My account is on a PieFed Instance.

      This meme is more making a joke about how relatively young PieFed is. Years back, a post to any community on the fediverse that got 20 upvotes was huge. But today, a post with 20 votes is basically nothing (depending in the size of the community). By the time PieFed came about, the fediverse was populated enough that a post with only 20 votes was nothing like a post with 20 votes in the olden days of Lemmy.

    • Skavau@piefed.social
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      12 hours ago

      You can see lemmy communities on Piefed.

      But you will need to make a new account on a piefed instance, same as you would moving to any other lemmy instance.

      • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        I thought we could easily migrate accounts between Fediverse instances and that that was a core feature of ActivityPub for preventing a single instance from dominating and effectively centralizing the Fediverse?

        Does piefed not support account migration?

        • Skavau@piefed.social
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          12 hours ago

          You can import your subscriptions, and communities can be migrated over - but I am unaware of an account migration function.

          • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            Hmm, only Mastodon is mentioned for this feature in the ActivutyPub spec… I’m not sure if it’s the only service that has implemented this fully or if it’s just the example used.

            https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/#move-action

            That’s ashame, because account mobility is the most important tool for healthy decentralization. The reason Facebook or Twitter can “get away with” implementing such shitty policies and abusing their users is because the users are locked in, with a high cost to switching platforms.

            The cost is highest for accounts like small businesses that live and die by social media marketing, once they have an established presence and successfully built a following on a platform, it is very risky for them to give that up and start over on a new one.

            • Skavau@piefed.social
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              11 hours ago

              I imagine Rimu would need to work with Lemmy in order to bring in that kind of migration for accounts where the post-history is completely redirected, but I doubt that’s gunna happen.

        • KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
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          12 hours ago

          Migrate is a strong word, more like you can copy your settings, it’s certainly not intrinsic to the standard either. Remember, your username includes your instance after all. I am not deeply versed but one of the better platforms was Mastodon and it was still limited to moving your settings and followers to your new account and setting the old one to forward. Posts weren’t reattributed or anything though.

          The strength of the fediverse is how the data is duplicated and how it’s the sum of many parts, but maintaining an “identity” on the fediverse is still wobbly, some like that though, it leans into the privacy/anonymity side of things.

    • rozodru@pie.andmc.ca
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      12 hours ago

      for you an average user you’re not going to notice much in difference. you’ll get more features with Piefed but otherwise you can still view and interact with each instance.

      From an admin side/someone who runs their own instance Piefed is just so much better. lighter, easier to set up, run, and manage.

      • SatyrSack@quokk.auOP
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        10 hours ago

        I have been really enjoying the scheduled post feature. I can set up my shitposts to be automatically posted at the optimal time of day. For English communities, I find that to be about 9:30 AM USA time.