ITT: “if only girls didn’t believe in horoscopes, my friend from college would have had a girlfriend”
Seriously. It’s so crazy to me to hate a behaviour based solely on its perceived impact on the chances of getting laid.
As if most of the people who got dumped over their zodiac weren’t just arseholes and the other person didn’t have heart to tell them.
When I was a kid girls went through a horse obsession phase. Boys had one with cars or dinosaurs.
Meanwhile wizards: “BEHOLD MY STAFF OF POWER”, “I’m pondering the SPHERES”, “KNEEL BEFORE MY MIGHTY ROD”.
Jokes aside, that is a culture thing - if my rather tattered memory serves, historically, a lot of magic was pact magic (asking someone else for power in exchange). Necromancy was a little different (before its conflation with “nigromancy” by the church in medieval times) and in its earlier incarnation generally involved a “descent” into the underworld via a gate (of which there were many) and so was almost “adventure magic”. These ancient holy sites were venerated rather than shunned and, again memory is patchy here, generally held an oracle (i.e. a witch).
So, fun fact of the day, if you go caving in the right place you’re technically a necromancer.
What’s the go with necromancy/nigromancy? This is all new to me and sounds fascinating!
So, in essence, necromancy was (traditionally) a divinatory art (in short asking questions of the dead who were seen to stand outside time [the notions of time and mortality being intertwined]). Greek and Roman Necromancy by Ogden is a good text on the history here.
Nigromancy, translating to “black divination” (black as in dark/evil magic) was more to do with demonic pacts and spells focused around power (e.g. summoning a feast, calling up a castle, cursing to madness or death, winning the love of a woman). The text forbidden rites gives a good exploration of this from a historical perspective.
This witch magics
I will never willingly go caving, not after the nutty putty cave incident.
Caving is fine as long as you stick to places you can walk to and stand in. As soon as your feet leave the ground or your elbows touch it, that’s your sign you’ve gone too far.
I just don’t see a benefit in doing it in the first place. People who actually have some business to attend to in the bowels of the earth can go into caves - if you’re a miner or geologist or something, feel free to walk right in. I’ll stay right here outside and you can tell me all about it when you get back out.
Even into adulthood, they love bullshit like horoscopes and blood types (the latter more prominent in Japan).
But blood types are real.
not the part where they define your personality and compatibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_personality_theory
Obviously. But in Japan, people think certain blood types have specific personality traits and it gets really annoying when people believe it as if it were solid science.
Just let people enjoy things, jeez
I mean, I didn’t say they couldn’t. It’s just bullshit.
That’s such a Capricorn thing to say
So strange how people will throw snark at others for enjoying harmless fun.
Believing stupid shit actually affects our personalities and actions is not harmless at all.
You’d be surprised which things affect our personalities and actions. I’d bet my left hat that you have some silly influences over you that you think are mundane and normal. And I bet those things make you more fun to be around too. Or less fun, depending on your company.
Harmless fun until they talk shit about one of their friends’ boyfriend because his sign doesn’t match and they think he’ll cheat on her… To fish one example out of the sea…
That goes deeper than simple horoscopes. If it wasn’t horoscopes, it’d be religion. If not religion, race. If not race, diet. If not diet, hobbies. It’s like talking shit about someone because they don’t use your favorite distro. Is Linux the problem? Or is it someone’s capacity to pass condescending judgements over silly things? Some people are insufferable. That’s a people issue.
Back in our early 20s, my friend decided not to date a guy because of his horoscope and some tarot readings she got. You could throw away the love of your life that way.
This kind of thinking is silly. First, that’s her problem. Second, whoa, jeez, are the stakes really that high? “I’d be married happily ever after if only she hadn’t gotten those darn tarot cards read.” Move on, meet someone else.
Is this just girls?
Am boy, had a witchy phase
Not witchcraft but, I went through a “try to train hard enough to get Dragon Ball Z powers” phase for similar reasons.
It’s certainly mostly girls
Same. We exist.
I had a few friends who introduced me to the topic. I’ve never cast a spell, but I learned a lot and really took to heart the end of the Witches’ Rede: “An ye harm none, do as ye will”. Which is empowering and generally fits in with the laws of the land.
Since that phrase has been a cornerstone of my personal philosophy, I’d call myself a witch.
Are you… Gerald?
far too flabby for that i’m afraid
Clearly not just girls seeing as how you’re here, unless of course you end up transitioning at some point lol
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Why do you separate these people? If you see something inherently wrong with churches why do you not feel the same sense of destruction towards witches? Consider your bias and how it makes you as delusional as anyone who blindly puts faith in higher powers.
Probably because I’ve never heard of a coven of witches writing to their local representative to ban abortion and enact sodomy laws.
What’s inherently wrong with witches?
Consider your own bias. Recognize the difference between a victim and an evangelist.
The undead are safer to be around than a man.
But what about undead vs a bear?
what about undead human vs undead bear?
because being in a coven with amazing women is preferable than being near high school boys.
I remember this happening when I was a teen, and there are still many women I know into it.
My mother was a self proclaimed witch since the 80’s/90’s, and told me as a child fairies were real, and constantly told me I “had psychic powers.” She read my cards and all that. It fucked me up wholly, and pushed me to science and fact. It’s not for me, and I don’t understand the fascination. But, if it makes other women happy, it’s really harmless.
Just about every time someone said something dumb about me or other people, it had real impacts on their lives. Some asshole said I could read minds which drove away friends who believed that’s possible. They also said I was a whore despite never even touching anyone until I was an adult; between me and others this happened to, it seriously harmed our ability to form relationships for years.
Ignorance and lies are not harmless.
I know some people do it as a hobby/curiosity/passion/personality thing. They don’t actually believe it, but it’s fun and looks cool. That’s harmless. The people who believe it’s real though? That’s not as harmless. It makes you less engaged with reality and fact, and maybe you won’t participate in actual work to fix things because you think your magic is just as good, or better.
Yeah there’s plenty of ways to take part in stuff like this without actually believing in magic, or fairies - or gods. It seems like our berry picking ape brains desire these types of narratives and the communities we can gain through them, so I’d even argue it is more stupid to try to fight against them than just accept they’re part of us and play along when needed.
Practicing magic or going to a church can be about doing fun things that tickle your brain, about tradition, about community - it doesn’t need to mean you don’t believe in science or have to abandon realistic worldview. Pitting science against belief instead of seeing the tendency to create weird little narratives about the world as a thing we do hasn’t solved things - the cults and beliefs are still there and ever so strong - just driven a lot of people deep deeeep into crazy
it’s really harmless.
No its not. Belief in bullshit has negative consequences for the individual, their friends and family, and society as a whole.
Now, is it comparatively less harmful than some other things they could believe in? Absolutely but its still bad.
This is an ironically anti-intellectual way to engage with it. Magic isnt real, but knowledge on the natural world and medicine has been maintained through cultural practices like “witchcraft” in the past. Even beyond that, there’s knowledge gained for young women in a patriarchal society when they develop relationships with other women and identify with a group that is explicitly counter-cultural on the basis of women empowerment.
Knowledge isn’t just facts, it’s skills and introspection. Belief in something “bullshit” is often necessary to learn something that is not “bullshit.” We teach kids scientifically inaccurate information when they are young because they dont have a basis of knowledge that would enable more nuanced and accurate understandings. They “believe” in something like three states of matter and two genders/sexes because we judge that as a necessary belief to foster the skills that will enable them to learn the reality of these things later.
If they gained self - understanding and empowerment through this phase, then it isn’t bullshit. You should challenge this doomerism.
Belief in something “bullshit” is often necessary to learn something that is not “bullshit.”
I fundamentally disagree.
I actually don’t think we should teach bullshit and call it “foundational”. I don’t think that’s helpful at all. If you are teaching kids states of matter, they can count higher than three, and understand that the class wont cover every kind of matter.
If one’s “foundational” education ends up directly contradicting advanced education, it ends up being a way to cement simplified and conservative views of the world. A la “there are two genders” shit that you mention from conservatives and TERFs. If your education system is fostering that kind of mentality its a reflection of that education system’s failure.
Even beyond that, there’s knowledge gained for young women in a patriarchal society when they develop relationships with other women and identify with a group that is explicitly counter-cultural on the basis of women empowerment.
I’d rather women get together based on a shared love of science and engineering.
If they’d rather dress up and act as witches they should get into theater or become goths. Or just celebrate Halloween year round.
If they gained self - understanding and empowerment through this phase, then it isn’t bullshit.
But they didn’t. They obtained a new form of constructed collective delusion & superstition. They’re forming just another arbitrary aesthetics-based in-group to sneer at out-groups from.
You should challenge this doomerism.
Did you read my profile or something?
I’m going you ask you how you would explain fermionic condensates to a child who does not even know what the states of matter are let alone subatomic particles and quantum states; what quantum means even. (Do you know what it is?) I think it’s obvious to all of us why we simplify things for them even if it’s inaccurate for professionals.
Also, you entirely ignored any reality around the preservation of natural knowledge through these cultural practices, which I mentioned to encourage you to also consider how wildly racist this stance is. Countless cultures accurately record their histories and knowledge through practices that dont necessarily conform to the Euro-settler-colonial imagination of knowledge or evidence.
Education systems in liberal states don’t prime children to subscribe to distortions because they simplify things, they do that through obscuring the skills to develop that knowledge and through the systemic enforcement of industrious teaching pedagogies that objectifies the students as labour. Yes, that fails to educate students adequately to grow into intellectual adults, but that isn’t the purpose of those systems. To conflate necessary elements of growth and education with politically motivated education systems is once again ironically anti-intellectual.
Most of your comment is obviously unreasonable, and I think it’s safe to give you the grace to assume that you understand this as well. No, women who get into a witch phase aren’t guaranteed to be anti-intellectual or believe in magic as they get older and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that it does besides your vibes. I called you a doomer because this is a doomer narrative where alternative ways of knowing are not only discarded, but actively constructed as pathological. I’ve used “ironically” more in these few comments than I have anywhere else in the past year; but this way of thinking is ironically superstitious.
See, if you said it was grade A+ nonsense, then I’d be hurt.
Thank. You.
I was tryin to have good grace here
Best grace would not be to say something that makes the problem worse
I’ll say it: adult witches are hot
Too bad there aren’t any since witches aren’t real
I mean, there are people who engage in esoteric ritual practices who use the term witch. That’s real.
Turning people into frogs and flying on brooms witches? Yep, you’re right.
Was this ever doubted?? Ofc they are
Theory - mass media creates the narrative that witches in the US are Devil worshippers, often with a pretty manly depiction of the Devil, thereby trying to enforce that they “derive their power from their relationship to a man”.
Yes, but that is hardly new. The church already did that in the middle ages and afterwards during the witch hunts.
There’s also something to be said about gaining power from the moon because it aligns with our bodies’ natural rhythms as well.
side question: why is the “DO” emphasized in the first post? when I try reading it like this it sounds so awkward and unnatural. shouldn’t the emphasis be on “why”?
[exasperated, while scrubbing cold black candle wax off of the dining table for the third year in a row while the recently turned 13-year old daughter raids her older sisters closets for anything velvet and purple] “WHY do teenage girls go through a witchy phase?”
[curious, after realising they never thought to ask their daughters this before] “why DO teenage girls go through a witchy phase?”
The emphasis on the word “do” feels pretty natural to me.
The meaning of emphasis on “why” and “do” are also slightly different I feel, but in a way I am too lazy to articulate at the moment.
The emphasis on “do” indicates an “established fact” that the author is seeking additional context on.
yeah I think that is exactly what I wanted to say but was too lazy to write succinctly while very tired eepy
Isn’t it assumed that witches get their power from the devil?
I think that’s a generally Christian-centric view (which describes anything non-Jesus as the devil). As far as Pagan witches are concerned they could get their power from any number of gods/goddesses, or even from nature herself.
"I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult,” said Granny firmly. “Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble.”
“But all them things exist,” said Nanny Ogg.
“That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em."
Terry Pratchett knew how it works lol
This is new info to me, so not sure who else, but Paganism isn’t a single system. It’s anything the Christians were trying to erase in Europe. The wildly varying descriptions occur because it was just the negative terms applied to any other group. Going to church is a ritual. Consuming eucharist is a ritual. Priests are channels to their god. Hyms are chants. Prayers are incantations. All just negative terms applied to the out groups.
So warlocks and clerics are just made up distinctions of the same thing? /j
Different spell lists, but yeah basically
Yeah, I didn’t want to disempower women, or anything like that. I know that this was merely the christiannarrative of witches.
Kind of interesting, though that the male-centric christian church had to invent a male figure which gives the witch her power.
When Ezekiel raises the dead, it’s a blessing from god. But when I do it…
I see nothing wrong with this. Please, continue and praise Satan.
Well a witch had sex with the devil. Or sth like that
If men stopped seeing women as prizes or things to conquer, they’d be able to appreciate just how impressive that is. And then to just call it a fling or a casual hookup. The devil is probably ancient and chill enough to know that sex can just be sex and power can just be power.
Or, maybe because it’s just cool. Might be a super controversial thing to say, but it’s pretty much proven that boys and girls tend to gravitate towards certain elements.
So boys go through a phase where they are crazy about dinosaurs. Girls it’s witchcraft.
This isn’t a universal constant, however, as neither of my sisters have been into witchcraft, and I know one woman who’s really into dinosaurs.
I was and am still super into both
Girls going through a witch phase is no different than a boy going through a katana wielding mall ninja phase. Both are lame af.
