Eyewitness testimony. Said eyewitnesses literally dying on that hill helps. As well as a religious movement spontaneously and uncontrollably erupting from it.
Cool. That describes most religions. So either you need to convert to basically every religion at once, or you need to raise your standards of evidence.
For a start, were the crusades really an atrocity? And the inquisitions? They were fighting against Islam.
And Judaism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, and anyone who happened to be standing in the way of valuables. How can you possibly be this deluded about history?
You don’t see a problem with the numerous times all Jews were expelled from their respective countries? Like when Jews in Spain, who had previously been tolerated under Islamic rule, were forced to convert, leave, or die, and many of them had to flee to Islamic countries for whatever refuge they could find there? Why the hell do you think there’s a diaspora?
Or the crusades, when the Byzantines asked the Church for help fighting the Muslims, and the crusaders sacked and looted Constantinople, leaving them more vulnerable?
The Bible doesn’t mandate witch burnings either.
Then you’ll be relieved to know that Marx never mandated any sort of atrocities, so that means Marxism has a totally clean record on that front.
None of these work. They all rely on humans. I don’t see a need to participate in that argument. Empires come and go. Whether they be feudal, theocratic, democratic or socialist. I’m more concerned with Christ’s eternal Kingdom. Christ didn’t preach an earthly political system, much to many people’s dismay at the time. All He did in regards to political systems was emphasising that people should submit to the authorities over them.
Long haired preachers come out every night
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right
But if you ask them for something to eat
They will tell you in voices so sweet
"You will eat, by and by, in that glorious land up in the sky!
Work and pray, live on hay, you'll get pie in the sky, when you die" - that's a lie.
Yeah, no thanks. If more people listened to your “submit to authority” bullshit, we’d still have chattel slavery. Fuck off with this bootlicking nonsense.
You don’t think I should care about politics? Well my boss and my landlord do, and every day they’re working to make my life worse. It’s long past time to start fighting back. We didn’t start the class war. We just recognize it exists.
Cool. That describes most religions. So either you need to convert to basically every religion at once, or you need to raise your standards of evidence.
Eh, not really. The Bibe points to specific points in time, letters appear to be addressing actual people and sending greetings, etc. They also reference real people contemporary for it’s time. I haven’t found any other religious document that does this. The Gospels and Epistles read as eyewitness testimony.
Or the crusades, when the Byzantines asked the Church for help fighting the Muslims, and the crusaders sacked and looted Constantinople, leaving them more vulnerable?
That part wasn’t right, but I can see noble intentions behind the motivations.
Then you’ll be relieved to know that Marx never mandated any sort of atrocities, so that means Marxism has a totally clean record on that front.
I know.
Long haired preachers come out every night
Try to tell you what’s wrong and what’s right
But if you ask them for something to eat
They will tell you in voices so sweet
“You will eat, by and by, in that glorious land up in the sky!
Work and pray, live on hay, you’ll get pie in the sky, when you die” - that’s a lie.
Jesus criticised this exact attitude.
Yeah, no thanks. If more people listened to your “submit to authority” bullshit, we’d still have chattel slavery. Fuck off with this bootlicking nonsense.
So you don’t submit to the authorities of the country you live in, then? What about your employer?
You don’t think I should care about politics? Well my boss and my landlord do, and every day they’re working to make my life worse. It’s long past time to start fighting back. We didn’t start the class war. We just recognize it exists.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m saying that politics shouldn’t be your god, which is a folly of most political systems
Eh, not really. The Bibe points to specific points in time, letters appear to be addressing actual people and sending greetings, etc. They also reference real people contemporary for it’s time. I haven’t found any other religious document that does this.
So if I send a letter to a real person claiming that I’m god, does that make my claim immediately legitimate, or do we have to wait?
That part wasn’t right, but I can see noble intentions behind the motivations.
Noble intentions my ass. They wanted to kill and loot and conquer, I see no real difference between the crusades and say, Genghis Khan. At least the Khan was honest.
Jesus criticised this exact attitude.
Maybe you should listen.
So you don’t submit to the authorities of the country you live in, then? What about your employer?
“Every proletarian has been through strikes and has experienced “compromises” with the hated oppressors and exploiters, when the workers have had to return to work either without having achieved anything or else agreeing to only a partial satisfaction of their demands. Every proletarian—as a result of the conditions of the mass struggle and the acute intensification of class antagonisms he lives among—sees the difference between a compromise enforced by objective conditions (such as lack of strike funds, no outside support, starvation and exhaustion)—a compromise which in no way minimises the revolutionary devotion and readiness to carry on the struggle on the part of the workers who have agreed to such a compromise—and, on the other hand, a compromise by traitors who try to ascribe to objective causes their self-interest (strike-breakers also enter into “compromises”!), their cowardice, desire to toady to the capitalists, and readiness to yield to intimidation, sometimes to persuasion, sometimes to sops, and sometimes to flattery from the capitalists.” - Lenin, “No Compromises?”
Yes, I submit to my rulers, temporarily, insofar as I don’t have the power to do anything else. This is fundamentally different from advocating for “submission to authority” as a general principle.
Yes, sometimes we have to endure defeat, indignities, and abuse, sometimes we must recognize a conflict as unwinnable in the current state of affairs, but that’s just a matter of surviving until that state of affairs can be changed. This is a practical, strategic calculation about how to win, it is not the same on giving up all hope of winning, of denouncing winning as immoral, and extolling the “virtue” of submission to authority. Surely you must understand this.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m saying that politics shouldn’t be your god, which is a folly of most political systems
I’ll never understand why Christians have this incessant need to assume everyone else has to have something that acts as a “god.” It seems to be a total lack of imagination, an inability to understand anyone who thinks differently from them.
So if I send a letter to a real person claiming that I’m god, does that make my claim immediately legitimate, or do we have to wait?
That’s not what the Bible is.
Maybe you should listen.
Not once did I advocate against helping the poor?
Yes, sometimes we have to endure defeat, indignities, and abuse, sometimes we must recognize a conflict as unwinnable in the current state of affairs, but that’s just a matter of surviving until that state of affairs can be changed. This is a practical, strategic calculation about how to win, it is not the same on giving up all hope of winning, of denouncing winning as immoral, and extolling the “virtue” of submission to authority. Surely you must understand this.
You will never win. No matter the system you will be oppressed until the Kingdom of Heaven comes.
Luke 6:20-26
And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh. “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry. “Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep. “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
Luke 1:50-53
And his mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.
You will never win. No matter the system you will be oppressed until the Kingdom of Heaven comes.
You are literally advocating against the poor right now. Any hope of actually helping the poor, advancing the people’s condition through systemic change, is impossible and a foolish, immoral endeavor, according to you, we should all just suffer and accept whatever oppression and injustice is inflicted on us so that we can get pie in the sky when we die. It’s literally exactly what you’re saying.
Curiously, the crusades, which were also a political endeavor, do not fall under the same logic (nor does banning abortion, for that matter). Because it was a ruling class endeavor. The ruling class’s boot is so far down your throat that you can’t even speak coherently.
Cool. That describes most religions. So either you need to convert to basically every religion at once, or you need to raise your standards of evidence.
And Judaism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, and anyone who happened to be standing in the way of valuables. How can you possibly be this deluded about history?
You don’t see a problem with the numerous times all Jews were expelled from their respective countries? Like when Jews in Spain, who had previously been tolerated under Islamic rule, were forced to convert, leave, or die, and many of them had to flee to Islamic countries for whatever refuge they could find there? Why the hell do you think there’s a diaspora?
Or the crusades, when the Byzantines asked the Church for help fighting the Muslims, and the crusaders sacked and looted Constantinople, leaving them more vulnerable?
Then you’ll be relieved to know that Marx never mandated any sort of atrocities, so that means Marxism has a totally clean record on that front.
The Preacher and the Slave
Yeah, no thanks. If more people listened to your “submit to authority” bullshit, we’d still have chattel slavery. Fuck off with this bootlicking nonsense.
You don’t think I should care about politics? Well my boss and my landlord do, and every day they’re working to make my life worse. It’s long past time to start fighting back. We didn’t start the class war. We just recognize it exists.
Eh, not really. The Bibe points to specific points in time, letters appear to be addressing actual people and sending greetings, etc. They also reference real people contemporary for it’s time. I haven’t found any other religious document that does this. The Gospels and Epistles read as eyewitness testimony.
That part wasn’t right, but I can see noble intentions behind the motivations.
I know.
Jesus criticised this exact attitude.
So you don’t submit to the authorities of the country you live in, then? What about your employer?
I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m saying that politics shouldn’t be your god, which is a folly of most political systems
So if I send a letter to a real person claiming that I’m god, does that make my claim immediately legitimate, or do we have to wait?
Noble intentions my ass. They wanted to kill and loot and conquer, I see no real difference between the crusades and say, Genghis Khan. At least the Khan was honest.
Maybe you should listen.
“Every proletarian has been through strikes and has experienced “compromises” with the hated oppressors and exploiters, when the workers have had to return to work either without having achieved anything or else agreeing to only a partial satisfaction of their demands. Every proletarian—as a result of the conditions of the mass struggle and the acute intensification of class antagonisms he lives among—sees the difference between a compromise enforced by objective conditions (such as lack of strike funds, no outside support, starvation and exhaustion)—a compromise which in no way minimises the revolutionary devotion and readiness to carry on the struggle on the part of the workers who have agreed to such a compromise—and, on the other hand, a compromise by traitors who try to ascribe to objective causes their self-interest (strike-breakers also enter into “compromises”!), their cowardice, desire to toady to the capitalists, and readiness to yield to intimidation, sometimes to persuasion, sometimes to sops, and sometimes to flattery from the capitalists.” - Lenin, “No Compromises?”
Yes, I submit to my rulers, temporarily, insofar as I don’t have the power to do anything else. This is fundamentally different from advocating for “submission to authority” as a general principle.
Yes, sometimes we have to endure defeat, indignities, and abuse, sometimes we must recognize a conflict as unwinnable in the current state of affairs, but that’s just a matter of surviving until that state of affairs can be changed. This is a practical, strategic calculation about how to win, it is not the same on giving up all hope of winning, of denouncing winning as immoral, and extolling the “virtue” of submission to authority. Surely you must understand this.
I’ll never understand why Christians have this incessant need to assume everyone else has to have something that acts as a “god.” It seems to be a total lack of imagination, an inability to understand anyone who thinks differently from them.
That’s not what the Bible is.
Not once did I advocate against helping the poor?
You will never win. No matter the system you will be oppressed until the Kingdom of Heaven comes.
Luke 6:20-26
Luke 1:50-53
You are literally advocating against the poor right now. Any hope of actually helping the poor, advancing the people’s condition through systemic change, is impossible and a foolish, immoral endeavor, according to you, we should all just suffer and accept whatever oppression and injustice is inflicted on us so that we can get pie in the sky when we die. It’s literally exactly what you’re saying.
Curiously, the crusades, which were also a political endeavor, do not fall under the same logic (nor does banning abortion, for that matter). Because it was a ruling class endeavor. The ruling class’s boot is so far down your throat that you can’t even speak coherently.