I can only hope plasma6 has serious improvements on Wayland compatibility with nvidia drivers because plasma5 is unusable.
Yes, I know it works on your machine. It doesn’t work on mine :P
This is Nvidia fault, no?
Ye but people don’t want to accept that the company charging $5000 for a GPU is also too stubborn and lazy to pay any devs to write decent drivers
This is what I don’t get. AMD has driver issues on windows because of a combination of their own incompetence and windows updates doing stupid windows things - people squarely lay the the blame on AMD. NVIDIA releases bad closed source drivers causing issues on linux - somehow the fault of linux and the open source communities.
These people should be hounding NVIDIA to fix their issues instead crying to DE developers to fix issues caused by NVIDIA.
because in Windows, blame doesn’t solve problems. You can blame Microsoft, or you can blame AMD, but either way nothing will change. In Linux, there’s some level of accountability because almost all software has maintainers (if not, you can step up personally). Similarly, you can’t hold Nvidia accountable on Linux - best you can do is not buy their GPUs.
Nvidia’s latest driver patched several issues with Wayland sessions - perhaps the experience will be a tiny bit better now
I had a quick go at it yesterday (the latest 535 broke DDC CI for one of my monitors, making plasma-powerdevil unable to start) and for whatever reason KWin ran at something like 3 seconds per frame. No that’s not a typo, I mean it. I hope it’s fixed before it gets to Arch’s repo.
EDIT: It works! I had to switch to the DKMS driver (the main one isn’t in the repos yet) but other than that my Wayland session didn’t die a horrible death. Well smooth. I still didn’t test much, but at least night light works.
Waiting for the driver to reach the repos to try it out. I am hopefull in an Hyprland future! You know, some day!
Hopefully Fedora and others forcing users onto Wayland is going to help push Wayland devs to fixing the stuff that’s breaking compatibility for everyone still stuck on X11.
Wayland is just a protocol, issues need to be fixed by devs of the apps/toolkits that have still haven’t migrated over unfortunately.
Yeah, I share the feeling. Not sure if the problem lies on Wayland or Nvidia but hopefully if Wayland becomes the standard they’ll address the elephant in the room!
Wayland is just a set of protocols, which work fine (albeit with limitations) when implemented properly. So if KDE’s implementation of its share of the APIs works correctly with Intel and AMD GPUs, but not with Nvidia ones, the culprit is extremely likely to be the latter.
I would wager nvidia. Wayland works way better with amd and intel GPUs.
Completely agree. I keep trying to open a new session on a clean new user regularly to check if it works and it is absolutely horrible. 3 days ago after updating the system and seeing some new latest kde versions coming in, tried again and noped the out of it in a few minutes. The fonts and scalling in so many places are very bad.
I keep reading about great improvements in the 6 version and am really hopeful for it to be usable.
Or the problem is just that no developers have normal regular laptops that are 14’’ at 1080p and can’t imagine that proper scaling at 125% and 150% needs to work out of the box.
Edit: I don’t even have nvidia hardware, it’s just regular intel stuff. Can’t imagine the struggle of nvidia folks.
The other half of the developers have 13" 2160p displays that are sharp either way – but don’t notice the battery life hit.
Iirc there’s ongoing work for proper fractional scaling protocol, so it might get fixed for KDE/QT applications at some point.
Iirc there’s ongoing work for proper fractional scaling protocol
I don’t know why “making stuff show up bigger on a screen” isn’t a solved problem in 2023, and at this point I’m afraid to ask.
Many apps are designed with bitmap icons (png, jpg) instead if svg, so fractional scaling requires manual changes.
Also, frameworks like GTK don’t have enough development resources to quickly make changes to support anything besides integer scaling. It’s difficult to change to fractions if everything assumes integers.
PS: “making stuff show up bigger on a screen” works already, it’s just not perfect. Windows is as far as I know the only OS coming close to doing scaling perfectly. Except Android and similar OS that were designed with fractional scaling in mind.
Completely agree, as an NVIDIA user (for now) I am screwed if I am required to use Wayland. I mean, I use Wayland for a long time and it works well with NVIDIA but there are many things that don’t quite work, like many emulators (Yuzu/RPCS3) that for some reason have a strange tearing, or some programs that simply won’t open in xWayland.
I’m hoping this project will be ready enough in time to pair with it https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/introducing-nvk.html
Seems like it’s still pretty green :/
I’m really looking forward to Plasma6. I know gnome has its fans but I am really just a reluctant user. Every day gnome works against me and I have to resort to workarounds.
Do I want to navigate, inspect, and manipulate my files quickly? I use dolphin.
Do I want to have a convenient panel to get a very quick glance of my currently running programs as well as a place to pin my most commonly used ones? That’s an extension.
Do I want sub-windows to always block their parent window, preventing me from interacting with the parent further? No solution.
Do I want desktop icons? Do I want excessive notifications from common tasks my computer is doing instead of from my own programs?
I have more complaints but I think I am making myself clear. Overall I do like gnome and it has good performance, but there are so many annoying aspects. KDE is itself not perfect. There’s enough reasons for me to continue using gnome over kde5. But that’s why I hold out hope for plasma 6.
I’ve been using Gnome for a long time, then Dash to Dock broke, switched to Plasma, not looking back __
Anybody else really hate how a lot of gnome programs have settings that are hidden in the optional gnome-tweaks program instead of putting them in the control panel or program preferences? I swear gnome3 is the only DE that genuinely despises its users.
What are your reasons to use gnome over kde? Most of the things you mentioned are reasons I use gnome over kde so I’m curious to know other perspectives.
Overall I do think KDE is more cluttered. So I like Gnome’s streamlined appearance (even if it omits too much). I also think the desktop compositor and shell are really well made, (i.e. mutter and gnome-shell), so I don’t really have performance complaints.
The future is here old man
Good for Fedora for being a trendsetter regarding Wayland, though I’m sure others are right in suggesting that this is probably not being done with KDE’s express approval lol.
I just want kde on Wayland not to have blury font with fractional scaling. It’s just unusable. Once that’s fixed, I’m all set to use it as my daily driver.
Fixed. Not backported since it requires a QT update. Fix is coming with Plasma 6. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446674
Nice
What does the baby emoji and 27d means? It only shows in voyager
Like the other guy said, it is indicator of new account age. I think there is a setting to turn it off if you dislike it.
It probably means the account is quite new
I have fractional scaling on current plasma wayland and don’t have blurry font. Is this a specific usecase?
Just your regular 27" 4k monitor. If I set it to 200%, everything is fine, but things are huge. I have to have it on 175%, and that makes the font very blurry. Also, any window decorations that are not default plasma get blurry, too. I’ve already posted about it in the kde instance and zamunda (a KDE dev) said it was fixed in plasma 6. So, I guess I’ll just wait it out.
I think you have to login and logout… For me it worked
Oh trust me, I do log out then log in, it just doesn’t work. I’ll try again to double check.
I can feel all the X11 fanboys crying lol
How hard do you have to search to find these x11 fanboys? Because whenever this topic comes up, the only detractors I see are users who complain because they can’t use wayland for various reasons.
On the other hand those on the other extreme are easier to find, as they always celebrate x11 users (willingly or not) getting screwed; so toxic.
deleted by creator
I don’t think anyone is an X11 fan boy. We all know Wayland is the future. I would be using it if it worked on my machine.
I see you’ve never been on the Phoronix forum.
I was going to say, you haven’t been on the internet long enough if you think there aren’t people out there petty enough to defend a dying display server 😂
Try Phoronix
A bunch of old fucks jerking themselves off to a half functional workflow they’ve had since 1987
Your description didn’t persuade me to try it, friend.
deleted by creator
X11 development is dead so it really is just a matter of time before Wayland is the norm and you’ll be saying stuff like “back in my days we used X11 and we liked it!”
Wayland is already the present for most Linux users.
Shit, it’s been enabled by default on Debian since 2019. Debian. The famously slow-moving distro.
deleted by creator
You could also list a bunch of insane stuff about X11. The security being hilariously bad, random tearing all the time, terrible multi-monitor support, terrible gesture support, etc.
X11 lacks basic functionality.
deleted by creator
Of course it matters. Maybe you didn’t know, but Wayland doesn’t exist in a vacuum, X11 is the other choice. How could you possibly think it doesn’t matter lmao
Most distros are already Wayland and have been for a while.
Perhaps it’ll start working with Wayland in 6.1 then ;)
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Plans were drafted in September to offer KDE Plasma 6 in Fedora 40.
All of these releases should take place at the end of February to inaugurate the Plasma 6.0 desktop.
Fedora 40 meanwhile should be out by the end of April and the Fedora KDE spin or those otherwise manually installing the KDE desktop will thus be able to enjoy the fresh Plasma 6 experience.
Well, the FESCo members have signed off on the Plasma 6.0 plan and the X11 support removal is still included.
FESCo members voted in this ticket to approve the Plasma 6.0 change proposal for Fedora 40.
Separately being pursued as well for Fedora 40 is removing the GNOME X11 session support.
The original article contains 246 words, the summary contains 117 words. Saved 52%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Davinci Resolve does not run on Wayland!
It’ll have to now :)
Good luck convincing Blackmagic of that.
It does run on XWayland, or has that changed?
Has never worked properly on Wayland.
Has never worked properly (on Linux, even on Windows)
I use Resolve in production. It’s rock solid.
Well, on Linux, lack of codec support makes it such a pain to work with it. Basically useless (unless you buy the Premium version).
On Windows, I always had weird rendering errors and crashes.
Other than that, it’s really good. Love the fusion system.
Fusion is what I hate most! Lol I come from Ae and the Adobe suite before I switched. And while I’m comfortable with node based systems, Fusion just isn’t all that compared to all the plug-ins for Ae. Or Blender, which is also fantastic for motion graphics. Fusion does a great job animating titles though.
Resolve requires a whole production pipeline to use it properly. From ingest, organization, cutting, and post for audii, color, and graphics. It’s best suited to broadcast or features. Or, advertising.
Doesn’t the Linux version of Resolve only read/import (or export? I can’t remember) .mov or something that makes it more or less unusable? Has that changed?
Yeah. On Win and Mac, it imports anything. But on Linux, the paid Studio version will import x264/x265 with mp3 or PCM (wav) audio. Not AAC. People don’t like that. Lol
But you’d be insane to edit with these interframe formats. And most commercial editors would auto-convert ingested x264/265 to an intraframe format like Apple ProRes or Avid DNxHR anyway. They’re essentially containers for jpeg or png frames instead of compressing collections of frames. Much easier to scrub the timeline that way, though the files are huge.
On Linux, Resolve (both free and Studio) imports DNxHR with PCM audio and edits that like butter. ffmpeg easily converts prosumer camera x265/aac output to DNxHR. Or Shuttle encoder, if you want a GUI. And most pro cameras output ProRes, ProRes RAW, or DNxHR directly.
Also, Resolve on Linux will ingest all Blackmagic RAW file formats, if you have a Blackmagic camera. And the little BMPCC 4k is still a steal at $1200 or so. As long as you light your subject properly, that little camera shoots gorgeous photography.
Resolve is a pro tool. But a project takes time to set up. For little things, I’d go with Blender’s VSE, which is full featured but has a terrible interface, or kdenlive, which is a Windows Movemaker like toy, but has a normal interface you’d expect from an NLE.
Sadly even Resolve Studio doesn’t support h264 all-intra as used in Sony’s XAVC-I and XAVC-S-I on Linux, which sucks.
With XAVC-I CineEI Slog footage the metadata is enough that Resolve treats it as Raw (in fact, it’s more flexible than braw). So losing this functionality really hurts.
Ouch, that does hurt. Sorry, dude!
You could use gpu passthrough with iommu and qemu to a virtual system and run Win. A real PITA. I know.
I’d bitch about that on the blackmagic Resolve forum. That’s a serious hit to your workflow. Call out Dwaine, he works there and does Linux support. Nice guy.
I still hope it’s just a driver or configuration issue, for now I just dual boot for resolve, but that’s obviously not a long term solution.
I mean, I dunno about you but for me this is money. I make money with these tools. I prefer Linux for privacy reasons, but I’m not religious about it when it comes to money. We all gotta eat.
The Blackmagic folks might help. Especially if you paid for Studio. I don’t work there and can’t make promises, but I’d definitely make a stink about that. At least get a formal statement from them on Sony support in Linux.
My in-house is an old GH5s w/ a Shogun. But if the client pays, I prefer to rent an URSA mini. So I haven’t hit this.
Really wish I could help more.
Thanks for the writeup, that’s far more advanced than what I need to do in my work sometimes __ But cool that it looks like there are options on Linux.
I do this for a living. Most people shooting family vids or youtube vlogs/video essays would find Kdenlive perfectly well suited to their needs. It does simple transforms, titling, adjustments, etc. And it looks like a normal NLE. When you hit a wall with it, the move to a commercial program will be easy.
Use kdenlive
It’s a toy.
I really want to use wayland - and even though maybe I shouldn’t I still do on my laptop - but man… on Plasma 5 that thing is borked. And I’m not even running on NVIDIA.
Whenever the system wakes up from sleep or an external display reconnects all open windows are gone and the system enters a weird state which forces me to reboot. How was “all windows are lost when the compositor crashes” not something fixed in the early days, is beyond me. That must make even developing for Wayland unnecessarily difficult/annoying.
I wonder if they consulted Plasma devs about it. Sure they said that they aim to make Wayland ready for Plasma 6, but it didn’t sound like it was an actual plan for 6.0. After all they got their hands full with Qt 6 porting, and there are still major roadblocks with completing Wayland support, while 6.0 is about to have its alpha release already.
Knowing Fedora devs however, I suspect they didn’t. They switched to Plasma Wayland by default several Fedora releases ago, when it was in no way ready. I guess I will switch to a different distro when this time comes.
Yes, they did. Neal has been pushing for Wayland by default upstream for a while, and getting that in for Plasma 6.0 was and is the plan.
Or do what I do and don’t update for half a year. The previous version is supported for a month after the release the next-next version.
It’s still not enough time for KDE devs to fix all major issues with Wayland. It requires at least another two years in the oven.
Maybe. Depends on the usecase. I’ve been running wayland for a year or so without trouble. Using moonlight to another machine for gaming and such.
Yeah, as usual the opinionated crew are making something that one may even like feel like it’s forced down everyone’s throat (see: systemd, snap…) and making everything worse. I don’t see how any Linux desktop distro worth its salt can get by ignoring 90% of the PC GPU market share and essentially forcing them into an inferior desktop experience for pure ideology’s sake, and I LIKE Wayland. I even put up with all its quirks in a particularly quirky implementation (KWin). But this ain’t it if you want users to use your OS.
