Update…Per Microsoft’s instructions, disabled all tracking protections in Safari and requested desktop mode and it works. Their instructions say turn protections back on after using teams… 😐
Funny enough it works in Safari and not Edge…tho that may be Apple’s fault since all browsers are somewhat just versions of Safari, last I heard…
I just dont understand how any company can use a product as broken as teams.
It comes with the Office subscription. People who choose it are not the ones using it daily.
My company’s IT department tried to push Teams since we pay for it either way. The rest of the company revolted and stayed on Slack.
I’ve been in an interview and the hiring manager wanted to have a call in Teams. Didn’t take that job.
Yup the people who chose it get celebrated for cutting hundreds of dollars per user per year for another product.
This fucking mentality. “Let’s use this thing that’s free instead of paying 50 dollars/month, the people who have to work with this can get their asses fucked!”
The business/work version of Teams isn’t free, you’re paying for it as part of the 365 subscription.
That’s part of why there’s a push to use Teams: companies see it as already paying for it, so might as well use it.
And of course there’s the constant barrage of fear mongering coming out of the security crowd that says the only sensible, secure thing to do is bring absolutely every fucking thing into a native 365 app. Because they fail to notice that the attack surface they’re so concerned about is a healthy software market.
Oh, didn’t know that thanks! My comment is just school IT trauma lol.
To be fair, slack price can reach up to thousands per month for very big companies.
That being said, teams is a ridiculous piece of software that is indeed broken.
Yeah but very big companies should expect to spend thousands per months supporting their team
Fuck you spez
It doesn’t even make sense in terms of numbers. If you’re paying people six figure salaries, that means they’re earning your company seven figures easy. If you increase the productivity of a person bringing in seven figures by 1%, that’s $10k minimum.
And yet they want to save like $13 per year to use a product that might cut their productivity by 5%
Now imagine being a freelance developer, who works for more than two clients, using Teams with different email addresses.
It’s a horror!
That’s me, but with four different clients. Have to switch between accounts all the time. It’s hell.
It comes with office for free. That’s how.
I’m not a huge fan of Teams, as it lacks critical features that alternatives have. But I’ve never experienced anything that would make me say it’s broken. What exactly are you referring to?
If you are part of two organizations you can’t log into both at once, and switch between them. You need to log out and log back in. The way you test your mic and speakers is incredibly stupid and slow. It’s also a disorganized mess.
Never thought about that 2 organization’s thing. Really could be useful if you have a end client account or something, but truth be told the majority of users/companies don’t need it so I kinda see why they don’t focus on that. It would be neat to be able to do that though… For the time being I just use one on browser + one on windows app. 😬
As for the microphone thing, I have no idea what you all are talking about. I’ve been using teams since 2019 or so and I can’t remember than happening once… Not that I can remember anyways.
This is honestly the biggest problem with it and I don’t understand how it hasn’t been solved after years. Luckily it was possible for me to just have one organization and just communicate as a guest with customers but it’s still a mess. People that don’t use it that way in don’t see my messages when they are connected to another organization.
It’s sort of fixed via Teams Connect, but it involves admins setting up new B2B direct relationships alongside special Shared channels. But 99% of admins aren’t aware this even exists, let alone the end users.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/entra/external-id/b2b-direct-connect-overview
It’s also a really easy way to make mistakes with sharing confidential content to a completely different organisation. Really not a great idea.
It should just be able to support multi tenant like slack always has.
I’m pretty sure that it has been fixed in the new Teams.
I’m not a huge fan of Teams, as it lacks critical features that alternatives have. But I’ve never experienced anything that would make me say it’s broken. What exactly are you referring to?
If you aren’t part of an organization, and need to join another groups team temporarily, its a complete clusterfuck. I’m not sure what exactly they are doing with cookies, but if you have to work with multiple teams, its shocking how bad it is.
Also, the chat/ zoom feature for video conferencing; I’ve never had it ‘just work’. There is always someone who has an issue getting it to function correctly. It regularly drops video or audio or both. I’m like, actually shocked that a company like MS can’t make basic functional software.
If you do a lot of B2B interaction as a guest tenant you cannot switch tenants without Teams being rendered inoperable.
Once you switch the client will continue to crash with the only recourse being to close the client and erase it’s cache manually.
It’s beyond annoying.
Most recently with the update to add “Teams Classic” as the package name. Now, then coming out of suspend, the client will randomly just be a white window, while still functioning as if it isn’t, so you accidentally click the white box and start calls. This also forces you to force close teams and reopen it.
Yes, Teams 2.0 is available on enterprise, however some enterprises are annoying about updates and will sit on the upgrade for several years.
We use it where I work and it does have its problems but I’ve not experienced anything major. The biggest issue is that it frequently can’t access the camera or mic without a reboot.
I’ve never used anything else so I’m wondering what these critical features that it’s missing are. Our company only has about 25 employees so I wonder if it’ll get more difficult as we grow more. Having said that, almost all of our European customers use Teams and many of them have thousands of employees and seem to be managing ok (although they wouldn’t tell me if they weren’t - it’s the kind of thing that you complain about among yourselves).
How is camera and mic not working until reboot not a major issue for you? That would drive me insane.
It’s because “frequently” is a bit vague. When I say frequently I mean maybe once per month per user (although I get it less often than that and another guy in my office gets it more often).
It’s more frequent than it should be but not enough to annoy too much.
The only time I have had it not be able to use my mic was when I had some issue with my whole computer and no app could use my mic. It could have been a driver crash or something. But other than that, I haven’t had that issue. Slack ALWAYS has that issue for me, though.
For missing features, you can’t add custom emojis, you can’t have bots, searching chat history is horrible (almost to the point where it’s not usable), there’s no markdown for spoilers, code blocks, italics, etc. so you have to click the buttons for it (not sure if spoilers even exist in Teams), code blocks are really clunky, you can’t link other conversations.
When my work briefly used Slack, it was really nice for text chat. But some teams just didn’t switch, and there’s just so much value having everyone on one platform. Fragmenting users was very counterproductive, so we went back to Teams.
Searching chat history is pretty shit. There’s no way to actually see the chat bubble that you found in the context of its conversation that I can see.
You can have bots in Teams although I haven’t found any particularly useful ones yet. I know Azure DevOps has one that I haven’t tried yet and so does our support desk software but I don’t see why I’d use that over using the support desk app directly.
The reason why we’re using Teams is that it was the default option for Office 365 and I haven’t seen a reason to switch to anything else when Teams has text chat, voice and video chat, SharePoint file browser, todo list, power apps, SharePoint pages etc.
I wouldn’t want to go to a system where I’m using different apps for all that or one where we have to move our documentation to view it in the app.
You can have bots in Teams although I haven’t found any particularly useful ones yet.
I meant more of writing them yourself. My old company used Mattermost, and we wrote a bot to choose where to eat for lunch each day. It would pick 3 choices from a list that anyone could add to, and we would vote on those three options or veto.
I like having the option to make my own bots.
You can do that too. There are links to examples on this page:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/platform/bots/what-are-bots
Well, it’s not broken today but an update will break it tomorrow…guaranteed.
How about the fact it’s the only web all I have ever used that requires you to manually refresh it sometimes.
Like, it stops everything to show you a message saying “Please refresh my page thx”
It integrates or something, idfk. Part of the Microsoft suite so we all get it by default. No, don’t ask why licenses just got more expensive, I promise its free.
I can field this. The answer is simple: they don’t. They use Slack internally.
Which alternative do you propose?
Literally anything else except for zoom and teams.
I dont have issues with zoom. Its the least bad of all the VC services.
Really? I’d take Google’s offering or Teams over Zoom, especially if there’s a screen share involved
Zoom requires the zoom app and has lots of security holes
Are you talking specifically on phones? Because it works just find in browser on desktop.
Its been a while so maybe its changed since I used it. Before it was desktop only
Ok. At least it works. I can’t say that for MS.
True
Literally anything else is a better option. Slack + zoom is orders of magnitude better.
I use teams very actively; we don’t have slack and I hate emails.
Honestly can’t remember last time I’ve had any issues.The app integration is awesome. It allows me to give non-technical people access to everything project related through a chat group.
15 pinned convo limit is nonsense though.
Also would like to just be able to paste markdown straight in.
In Microsoft’s defense I phones don’t have proper web browsers. They are all the same under the hood
Yeah, this might be it. For anyone not aware, every browser on iOS is just safari with a different skin and some plugins to work with whatever ecosystem you actually are trying to use.
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It’s an active case in the EU court, and may only change for Europe. So it may not happen and it may not in all countries.
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They have different browsers with limitations but I don’t know about not proper. It is possible to build perfectly decent web apps but many times they choose not to or it’s too much trouble
See 2.5.6 here: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
It is possible to build perfectly decent web apps but many times they choose not to or it’s too much trouble
On iOS, they quite literally can’t in some aspects. They’re restricted to using the supplied WebKit Apple enforces. On Android you can use the Blink Web View (Chromium) or Gecko Web View (Firefox). Both of which can be bundled in the app, or you can use the system version.
They have different browsers with limitations but I don’t know about not proper.
Every single iOS “browser” is WebKit. AKA Safari. Due to Apple’s plug-in system being proprietary, it’s difficult to extend. Third party browsers typically use JavaScript injections which slow down the browsing experience. The supplied WebKit is also watered down and updated on a slower cycle. Apple intentionally makes their browser better.
You’re not actually using Microsoft Edge. You’re using Safari and it’s being identified as such by the UA string. Due to Safari being in last place for web standards feature support, it’s not surprising you’re coming across the issue.
iOS only allows PWAs in Safari, and Safari lacks a lot of features for PWAs - https://firt.dev/notes/pwa-ios/ is a pretty good resource for figuring out what they do and don’t support.
Outside of PWAs, Safari is a pain to develop for. Unlike both Firefox and Chromium browsers, its “dev tools” are a bit of a mess and don’t support simply adding extensions like React Dev Tools to augment them. To use such an extension you have to run it as an independent application and connect to Safari, and IME doing this it frequently fails to actually connect properly and didn’t provide a comparable workflow.
When I was working on an app that only needed to support Safari, I ended up just using those extensions in Chrome or Firefox rather than trying to build it in Safari.
And this is my experience building on a Mac. For anyone developing on a Windows or Linux device, it’s not like they can just install Safari locally to confirm that everything works. So if something doesn’t work in Safari, it’s probably not gonna get caught by the developer.
They don’t though. They all use the same engine and a subject to Apples restrictive rules
Safari/WebKit on iOS doesn’t support Opus which makes it a non starter for modern video call platforms.
That are two capital NOs from me:
- using teams on my own phone
- turning off tracking protections.
Lemmy has a serious boner for hating on Microsoft.
Teams is exceptional in being terrible.
I was totally over trash talking MS stuff until Teams came along and reminded me just how terrible they can be when they have a market segment cornered.
When it works it’s alright. Interfaces with the rest of office. But Microsoft literally breaks it all the time…it’s never been more broken then when I updated to Windows 11 today. Literally spent 6 fucking hours on updates, reboots, uninstalls and reinstalls. When I logged off and went home I was still using the damn web version because windows updates were immediately breaking anything tech support fixed. I got paid for doing very little but really frustrating day.
Agreed but also fuck teams.
i hate MS, Google, Amazon, Apple … FOSS or bust fuck these robber barron birches
Same here but I’ve got to admit Google does some cool stuff.
Speaking as someone who has to use Google Cloud Platform most days; they also do some horrific stuff, and their documentation and support are miles behind the AWS and Azure equivalents. And having worse documentation than Azure is quite the achievement.
I was talking more about ai and Dev tools tbh I haven’t ever used Google cloud functions or whatever ever their cloud computing thing is called but I have seen some docs that didn’t look bad…
Bust fuck ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I’ve been using computers for well over 30 years. Teams is an unintuitive pile of shit.
Yes we have
Lemmythe internet has a serious boner for hating on Microsoft.you must be new here
the internet has a serious boner for hating on
Microsoftmajor corporations.you must be new to the internet
the internet has a serious boner
for hating on major corporationsYou get used to it
If they would actually fix their shit then we would probably be less critical of it but right now it is a pile of steaming garbage
So my Linux loving friend had their Debian installation nuke itself the other day. They went to boot it up and it just vanished. Completely gone. For zero discernable reason. It worked the night before without issue, it worked for months before that without issue, only to boot up and have everything missing.
All this is to say that using non Microsoft operating systems doesn’t magically make everything better. Everything in computing has issues and there’s no such thing as the perfect system.
Plus, even if Windows was perfect and fully FOSS, you and I both know you and all the other unix people would still hate it. It’s been the same circle jerk since the day unix existed.
As a ““power user”” of software, 98% of software sucks. There’s always shit that makes you go “have they even tried using this?” or “did they test this at all?”
Anecdote about a magical disappearing operating system? And it is somehow the fault of the OS and not the MUCH more likely culprits, user error and hardware failure? Conflating UNIX and Linux as if they are the same thing? Your story sounds like naive exaggeration based on ignorance and hyperbole.
But you’re right, there are plenty of reasons to hate Microsoft that have nothing to do with open vs. closed source philosophies. However, saying that the foundational principles of open source software development are more sound than closed source development in general and the particular way Microsoft has chosen to develop is not the same at all as your “perfect system” straw-man argument.
By the way, UNIX was created in 1969, Windows was initially released in 1983 (but didn’t really take off with Win3.1 in 1992), and Linux began in 1991. So your final statement while technically true, I suppose, is kind of absurd.
Your story sounds like naive exaggeration based on ignorance and hyperbole
You mean kinda like how every “Windows bad!” Story is just a PEBCAK error? Lol
How much did your friend pay for Debian?
As in there is no boot entry? Or the drive was empty? There about 5 different possible causes for that that I can think of, all of which are user errors or hardware failures (or windows updates wiping boot entries xD).
Regardless, I get what you are saying, I wouldn’t recommend using Linux for 98% of people. The exception being when what you need to do is either not supported or is an absolute nightmare on Windows.
I chose to use Linux before I needed it, purely because windows always felt unintuitive, sluggish and irrationally complicated for me. Nowadays I cannot do what I need to do (for work and personal projects) on Windows or do not have the time to get it working. I maintain several Linux and Windows servers, on top of writing the software that’s running on them. I simply do not have the time to deal with a lack of documentation and the weird workarounds needed to do what I need to do on Windows.
When it comes to things like scientific computing, ML, databases and anything “backend” or low level, most of the software doesn’t support Windows and the OS level API’s are confusing as all hell.
Windows is better for the average “desktop user”, but it falls short as soon as you need to do things the average user never does.
True but with good reason. I hate Microsoft and my job is implementing their stuff.
My colleagues are all hyped up about Ignite later this month, it’s disgusting, like a cult. And they’re constantly spamming LinkedIn full of Microsoft headlines like good corporate drones.
We were told that Teams was the bees knees and it would massively enhance collaboration and productivity due to its fantastic integration.
Well, let me tell you that my disappointment was immeasurable.
It is so slow, so inflexible, so unpolished. I despise it for anything other than a quick chat.
On my work computer Teams is consistently the biggest memory hog even when I’m not in a meeting or actively using it.
Yeah, like there’s issues but I was literally just arguing with a guy earlier who genuinely thought that using Linux was a magic bullet for network security because “FOSS is secure!”
He was more worried about microsoft skimming his data than threat actors planting malware. THAT was his primary “security” concern. Find me any Sec analyst that is worried about what Microsoft is doing versus hacktivists or foreign governments, you can’t. We know it’s happening, just don’t use personal shit on your company computer.
Then he accused me of being a Microsoft fanboy because I said users having unrestricted access to putting whatever software they want on their machine is a massive attack surface.
These wannabe’s are so fucking bad here, and because there’s so many of them the non-IT users get up voted while actual IT professionals get downvoted for speaking the truth based on actual security policies.
Teams, when used within a single Org, works great. For 3rd party interaction, or working for multiple Orgs I would highly recommend almost any other product.
The intra-org integration with SharePoint and document management/data retention is very good.
But nonsense like what OP is experiencing is why even I, as the senior MS Support SysAdmin at my employer, refuse to use Microsoft Office products on my personal Android phone.
If they want/need me to do that, they can give me a dedicated phone just for that purpose. MS MAM is never touching my personal equipment in a million years.
OP is stuck between a rock and a crap place.
I was hired during the pandemic and Teams has been my main way of interacting with my employer and co-workers since 2021. I like it OK most days but Microsoft likes to release updates that break things several times a year. Oh…I like this new feature! And…an update broke it
I keep Teams on my Android phone but installed in its own isolated work profile via Shelter.
Our MAM policy would not allow this.
Frankly it’s BS.
Teams is far more than mildly infuriating
I don’t use Teams but I use WebEx on a Linux laptop. Can’t imagine how it can get worse than that
You know what’s great about Microsoft Teams compared to other chat apps? It’s super on point with updating your colleague’s status. There’ve been times I thought my colleague was MIA for hours, but turns out, it was just a glitch. A quick restart with the app and boom, we’re back in sync! 🤪
Grey circle = they were fired 😂
In Microsofts defense, they are hilariously incompetent. And on the other hand, fuck Bill Gates.
I have to use that garbage teams app every f****** day and I hate it. I’m glad I have an android phone and actually have some choice with regard to my browser.
Oh poor you. It’s probably not your fault you are living the life of you.
What the fuck is this bullshit comment? Come on, man. If you want to be an insulting troll, at least put in some effort. Sheesh.
It’s a playful encouragement
Crapping on people complaining about work 👏🏻 cool cool
Always the victim… even here on lemmy
They say it is rewritten and in reality it has the exact same bugs and issues as before. Kudos to the product manager who managed to sale it as new
They don’t even let you log in if your browser is set to block third party cookies. Fuck Microsoft.
Do you have a “Use Desktop Mode” on iPhone browsers?
Ah…after 15 minutes of fucking around I was able to get it to work only after disabling all tracking prevention at Microsoft’s direction and clearing all browser history and requesting desktop website. Their instructions say to turn tracking protections back on when you are done using teams browser version…
Now I can go online and tell my team windows 11 is still installing. Hurray! 😂
Didn’t you know? With Microsoft products those trackers are required. The app just wouldn’t be able to function if they couldn’t track everything you typed into it. You should really be more thoughtful of Microsoft and how you’re being a big meany by not giving them your data.
Glad you got it fixed. It really grinds my gears that so many big companies have taken their lightweight and usable mobile interfaces and borked them, replacing it with a page saying “Use our app 🤭”, then the app is just the mobile page in a webview wrapper for the majority of functions.
I hate that so fucking much. Why would I fill my phone with crap apps for something that I only use once a month or so? Teams wouldn’t be the case since I use it often. But so much more apps are asking and sometimes forcing you to download an app that’s the exact same shit as loading the page… 🤦🏻♂️
WHY?
It’s harder to track you in some browsers, like safari and Firefox.
But the best apps are the ones that tell you to go to the web page to access some key feature. Despite the website telling you, you need to download the app.
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I had to do similar bullshit to get working on Firefox on Android.
I work in the tech support field and Microsoft is making me want to quit and find a work that doesn’t involve using Teams. I’ve never liked them very much and been a Linux user for over 20 years, but I still have to deal with them for work. However they’re becoming increasingly difficult to tolerate.
They really really want Windows users to have a Microsoft account. I avoid that and prefer local accounts. But Microsoft likes to link my local account with my Microsoft account anyway, because I need to give it to them to play Minecraft on Windows. So now even if I didn’t want to, my Windows account is showing the picture of my Microsoft/Windows Gaming account profile because I must have passed over a box to uncheck somewhere while logging into Windows Gaming to play Minecraft… mildly infuriating Microsoft.
I used a personal laptop for work a few times and accidentally connected my OneDrive to my corporate account. Again, I must have misunderstood the configuration and login process because it synced (more like moved) all my personal files on my work’s OneDrive. Mildly infuriating Microsoft.
Same personal laptop used for work sometimes. I use Edge specifically to separate work from personal browsing and somehow, again, I logged in somewhere with my work account and it synced all my personal browsing history and saved passwords from a different browser, into my “Edge for business” online thigny. So when I was using Edge at work, on my work computer, it was suggesting me logins and passwords from my personal browser that I use on different computers. Mildly infuriating Microsoft.
Teams, OneDrive, Edge for business, their subscription model, forcing Microsoft accounts… individually they are mildly infuriating but combined together, let’s say it’s a powerful generator of rolling eyes.
There is a setting in office 365 that won’t allow non-company assets to log in. It got me too.
Whenever I log into teams on my home PC, Firefox pops up to be like “hey, teams is asking to use cookies from microsoftonline.com is that okay?” It’s possible Safari is enforcing something like that but without the prompt.
